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Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I think Larni was saying 14 (7 pair) of each clean animal and 2 (1 pair) of each unclean animal, not 16 animals total.
But while we're on the subject: Q: What's harder than getting a pregnant elephant into the ark? [Noah! Make them stop. I'm getting seasick!]Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers |
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Hi, Alter2Ego--welcome to EvC!
I cannot address your topic, since I am not a Christian. I'm mostly interested in science and stick to the science/secular sections. Here, on the religion side of the forum, science is not welcome; on the science side, the religiously faithful never ever respond to issues of science with declarations of faith. I hope you enjoy EvC. P.S. Is your avatar pic a representation of Eve? I give extra credit for non-blue-eyed images of Jesus and his folks."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sure, we can cease and desist from this angle on Bible unreliability, but I STRONGLY disagree with you about the Bible. It certainly does provide a basis for scientific thought. You are welcome to your opinion but I make no distinctions between where the Bible applies to science and science can learn from the Bible. It's not some mythic "religious" text at all, it's God's own revelation of truth we would otherwise have no way of knowing, and that includes truth about the physical world wherever it has commented on it. So don't go pontificating as from on high as to what the Bible is and is not.
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO:Anyone can participate in the discussion. I specifically invited Christians because trinity and hellfire are the central doctrines within most of the 41,000 or so denominations within Christendom. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Trinity is not specifically named in the Bible but it is implicit in a huge array of scriptural references that together add up to the concept of One God in Three Persons. Here is An Outline Study of the relevant scriptures.
The affirmation that there is One God is the first reference in the outline for which he lists all the verses that apply. Then the facts that the Father is God, that Jesus Christ is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God, are also demonstrated from the scripture verses affirming the attributes of each as the attributes of God. All three are JEHOVAH God. Jesus Christ IS Jehovah God. Then he gives the scriptures that show that each is a distinct Person, God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit each described as a distinct personality. He also gives some common objections to various points. There are other similar outlines to be found on the interne that demonstrate the same thingt. The Jehofah's Witnesses are deluded in their belief about who Jesus Christ is and therefore about the reality and nature of the Trinity. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II. 2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Just a general warning to all about our poster. He's posted these exact same posts on multiple threads under multiple names. As he has with his new proposed thread awaiting promotion.
He's a troll, regularly banned from many threads. I doubt we'll get any further with him than any other forum ever has.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android |
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- OMNIVOROUS: Thank you for the welcome. quote:You said theists never respond to scientific issues with declarations of faith. So that equates to "theists respond to scientific issues with scientific arguments." Is that the point you were making? "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3487 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:He's being sarcastic, because some theists do respond to scientific issues with declarations of faith. He failed to mention that such responses are also met with complaints and sometimes suspension. Hopefully you are here to debate your questions in Message 1 and not just to see what reaction you can get from those who are religion free. Your topic seems to be focused on Bible teachings and their basis in the Bible, so scientific accuracy of the Bible is off topic. It would have been put on the science side if Admin felt the thread was going that route. If I'm incorrect, please let me know. The Style Guides for EvC thread has helpful instructions on how to use the quote boxes here at EvC and it is always wise to read the Forum Guidelines carefully. As for the topic, I usually take the position that the trinity and hellfire were not taught by Jesus (what we know of his supposed teachings) or Paul. I feel they came about after Christianity went to the Gentiles and pagans were assimilated. Again, welcome to EvC and don't let yourself get pulled off course.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
purpledawn writes: He's being sarcastic, because some theists do respond to scientific issues with declarations of faith. He failed to mention that such responses are also met with complaints and sometimes suspension. I prefer the term "ironic"."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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I see that purpledawn has authoritatively determined my meaning, as is her wont.
Let it suffice to say that the vigilance against science here vastly exceeds the vigilance against faith on the science side. How could it not? If the demand for science and evidence there were enforced as strenuously as they are made anathema here, there could be no creationist participation. However strict purpledawn portrays the enforcement of rules for evidence on the science side to be, you will be able to judge for yourself how often religious commentary on scientific issues leads to suspensions. Nonetheless, the welcome is genuine. I will read your posts with interest and without further comment. PS: I remain curious about your avatar. Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
As I hope you are now aware I was referring to the amount of unclean animals.
Do you now concede my point about the genetic bottle neck? I appreciate that you don't want to address this (thanks for the tip, Purpledawn) and I will bow out when you respnd. All the best.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION: 1. Are there scriptures in the Bible to support the teachings of Trinity and hellfire? No, the concepts of both the trinity and of hellfire, are extra-biblical.
2. Why are these teachings found in pagan/false religions that never worshipped the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible? I suppose they came up with the concepts first.
3. If the Trinity and hellfire are Bible teachings, why is it that Jesus and his apostles who followed him around never taught anyone about the Trinity and literal hellfire? They're not Bible teachings.
4. How is it that both the Trinity and hellfire teachings did not become "Christian" teachings until the Roman Catholics copied both of them from pagan/false religions--AFTER the resurrected Jesus Christ returned to heaven? I suppose that IS when they became Christian teachings.
5. If hell is a place of literal fiery torment, how is it that the Bible says Jesus went to hell for the entire three days that he was dead? I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'd bet that any contradiction you're imagining can be solved by Jesus using some sort of godly powers.
6. If hell is a place of literal torment, why is it that the word "hell" also means "Sheol" and "Hades" and "the grave"? Words have multiple meanings.
7. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If it does, I doubt it teaches it that specifically and explicitly.
8. Are the words "Trinity" and "Godhead" in the Bible? Not that I'm aware of.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The Trinity is not specifically named in the Bible but it is implicit in a huge array of scriptural references that together add up to the concept of One God in Three Persons. Here is An Outline Study of the relevant scriptures. Thank you, that guy does a good job. I like the way the Bible verses pop up too, that's a neat way of doing it. I do think that occasionally he's reaching; however most of it is convincing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Alter2Ego writes:
Three is a magic number. So are twelve and forty. If Jesus had had eleven disciples that followed him every day and one guy brought his cousin to the Last Supper, they'd still be called The Twelve. If God had four aspects, they'd arbitrarily shoehorn two of them together and the Trinity would be Father, Son and Miscellaneous. Why are these teachings found in pagan/false religions that never worshipped the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible? For instance there were pagan trinities at least 200 years before Jesus came to the earth as a human. In numerology, the number of items is more important than the items themselves.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
8. Are the words "Trinity" and "Godhead" in the Bible? No, but neither is the phrase "Theocratic Kingdom".
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