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Author | Topic: Christianity is Morally Bankrupt | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined:
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How old r u dude? U have a dreadfully dated world view.
A child is raised by a loving community, I am a single father of a wonderful 10 year old boy who is surrounded by people who care for him and cherish him - my relationshipStatus or the absence of his mother does nothing to deminish that. A family is so much more than 2.5 kids and a mom and dad, family oughta be as unique and diverse as the people that it creates. Beside I did emphasis that safe sex should be practiced, I would not encourage anyone to be reckless with their bodies or their hearts, but I would be in favour of being happy and not feeling ashamed of one of the best parts of life. Ur views on women is appalling by the way, it is so backasswards I'm notSure it requires qualification - but women r strong and intelligent and love sex just as Much as guys, people r just people.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
If your sure...... I really would rather not, but ur quite a good speaker so I'm curious to hear what u have to say.
I suppose firstly I'd be curious to have the usual atheist crap answered, why do u believe exactly and how can u proove it - but I suppose more specifically I'd question the nessesity of your god, it seems that you have a good basis for a secular stand point, with no fear of eternal damnation etc. I suppose as a system of belief worship relies essentially on an element of fear - without that I dunno, why bother I suppose. Why not leave it at live a good life and be a good person. It seems like your niche have already saved themselves
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Why do I believe the way I do?
Because my belief is the product of my experiences, education, introspection and contemplation. How can I prove it? Don't be silly. I can't prove it as long as I am alive and would not even try to do so. I can explain why I think a Christian position as you outlined in the OP is so ridiculous that at best it could be considered a caricature or farce. You question the necessity of my God? Okay, that's fine. What possible effect could that have on either my beliefs or reality? As to eternal damnation, like everyone else that's honest in this world I have no clue about what an afterlife might be like, whether there would be eternal torment. You said "I suppose as a system of belief worship relies essentially on an element of fear - without that I dunno, why bother I suppose." Why must there be an element of fear? Granted that's a cheap and easy marketing gimmick, IBM became very successful using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) as their marketing strategy. It really works well for the Christian hucksters selling salvation, but it still smells of dishonesty. I believe I have a duty to follow the teaching of the path I've chosen and a charge to live my life according to the set of standards built into that path. I believe I will be judged after I die, judged based on what I personally did with my life. I believe all of us, Jew and Muslim, Atheist and Agnostic, Wiccan and Satanist, Buddhist and Hindu, Animist and Sun worshiper, Taoist and followers of the Norse Gods will be judged, based on our personal behavior and our personal capabilities. And if there is a Heaven, I believe and expect far more Jews and Muslims, Atheists and Agnostics, Wiccans and Satanists, Buddhists and Hindus, Animists and Sun worshipers, Taoists and followers of the Norse Gods will be admitted, welcomed, than Christians. As to having saved myself? Nonsense. There is no way I can save myself. If I am saved it will only be through the Grace of GOD.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
He has no sources.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
once you include deep time, that it destroys the foundation of their religion.
They need to see that man has been developing and maturing through the seven Ages, eveolving into a creature who can recognize the Truth, which is image of the force behind the ever unfolding Reality that is the master of the living, including man.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
kofh: Abortions by Religious Affiliation: Protestants: 37.4% Catholics: 31.3% Jews: 1.3 % Secular: 30.0 % subbie: I'd be curious to see your source for those figures, because they look fishy.
...fishy...?Do you mean embarrassing???? They are published in the World Almanac. I'll try google and see if there is a lik for you to check out. PS.The go=irls checking "Christian" at the abortion clinic obviously really were not. But their parents clearly are NOT teaching the Christian Truth that would have made it clear that Jesus is NOT love, but the honest truth on things like this in particular.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
He has no sources.
?Can you give me an example of something I didn't source???? What proportion of U.S. women obtaining abortions are religious?Answer More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.[38] The abortion rate for protestant women is 15 per 1,000 women, while Catholic women have a slightly higher rate, 22 per 1,000.[32] United States Abortion | Guttmacher Institute
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2131 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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5 - Original Sin and Sins of the Father. Returning to the opening post, Ayn Rand has the following to say about original sin: A sin without volition is a slap at morality and an insolent contradiction in terms: that which is outside the possibility of choice is outside the province of morality. If man is evil by birth, he has no will, no power to change it; if he has no will, he can be neither good nor evil; a robot is amoral. To hold, as man’s sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality. To hold man’s nature as his sin is a mockery of nature. To punish him for a crime he committed before he was born is a mockery of justice. To hold him guilty in a matter where no innocence exists is a mockery of reason. To destroy morality, nature, justice and reason by means of a single concept is a feat of evil hardly to be matched. Yet that is the root of your code. Personally I think the concept of original sin is one of the most evil ideas ever cooked up in the fevered minds of shamans. And I don't doubt that it was designed primarily to increase the control that shamans had over their subjects. I reject that concept completely.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I got a sense of the concept of Original Sin sometime during the period when I was becoming a believer, back in the 80s, and far from Coyote's take on it for me it was like a brilliant light went on that illuminated this dark world. I felt that finally I had an explanation for the evils in this world that otherwise have no explanation. To my mind the doctrine is essential and precious for that reason. It takes a chaotic world in which people do horrible things to each other and makes it understandable.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
deleted reply
not worth it Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Jon Inactive Member |
To expect everyone to fall in under a system whether they want to or not, to leave them no option to opt out is tyrannical and down right abusive. If you were born into a community or joined one who's rules you did not agree with you would be able to leave (although it could be difficult, think of the Berlin Wall for example) - Christianity offers no such claus What exists exists; what more is there?Love your enemies!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: . I felt that finally I had an explanation for the evils in this world that otherwise have no explanation. You found a myth that explained it in a Grimm's Story way. You didn't find the explanation.
To my mind the doctrine is essential and precious for that reason. It takes a chaotic world in which people do horrible things to each other and makes it understandable.
The problem you have is that you needed an explanation other than the real and obvious one, which is that we're descended from animals that have to fight other animals for their survival. So we have many of those attributes. We are beginning to find our way out of our upbringing through our intellect and our secular institutions. We no longer have need for mythology to provide the reasons why we are what we are. So we can finally do something about it.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I agree that what exists exists - that's kinda a corner stone of any attempt to understand anything, but r u saying it from a theistic point of view or a rationalist one? Clarify?
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined:
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"As to having saved myself? Nonsense. There is no way I can save myself. If I am saved it will only be through the Grace of GOD."
I deeply dislike this position. I'm not an antitheist due to my own intellectual integrity BUT I would lean very heavily in that direction, as such I am 99.999999% that all the goodness and kindness (which is the vibe I'm getting from u) in you, begins and ends in u - the existance of a higher power would lessens that, and believe in one does yourself a disservice. Whatever you achieve in life you do so by the Grace of Jar and you should be damn proud of that. Any obstical you over come or problem you squash, Grace of Jar again. To qoute A. Voltaire "I hate people who blame the devil for their own short comings and I hate when people thank god when things go right" Humans r capable of astounding things, both the honour and the responsibility for those things lies with the individuals in question - anything else lessens the human experience, and life is too freaking short to lessen the experience
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You are free to "deeply dislike" that position even though your post shows that you are totally clueless about that position.
That position has absolutely nothing to do with what I accomplish or fail to accomplish in this life. Your quote from Voltaire is also totally irrelevant to that position.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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