Summations Only

Hi No, Apparantly I wasn't thinking at all.God Bless,

Despotism. Tyranny. Concentration camps. Evil people. Bad people. The next Hitler. Subjugated and ready for the slaughter. Horrors that we aren't even willing to consider. God's judgement upon a nation. The destruction of the US. These according, to Faith, are the consequences of increased gun regulation. Those of us here who argue for increased gun regulation are, according to Faith, propagandist mouthpieces for some sort of global conspiracy intent on destroying the US and getting us all killed.Meanwhile ICANT sits behind his numerous doors and intruder detection devices ever armed, ever ready and ever vigilant. Every knock at the door is treated as a possible life-or-death situation. Any unexpected entrant to his home shot on sight with the sort of unerring deadly accuracy that can only be achieved through determined and relentless preparation for the very worst case scenarios. Both he and his wife trained to the level of expert in the use of their weapon of choice (in ICANT's case a Ruger 44 magnum loaded with a combination of armor piercing and hollow point bullets) and prepared to kill first and ask questions later - Conjuring up images of some sort of geriatric Jack Bauer and Natalia Romanova (AKA Black Widow) combination. If their grandchildren are due to visit they will "prepare" accordingly (given the context I am guessing that don't mean puffing the cushions and getting the cookie jar down)Faith. ICANT. Just stop for a moment. Just stop and consider what you are saying and how you are living. This. Is. Not. Sane.A discussion about gun regulations should be much like a discussion about any other question that involves balancing civil liberties with public health concerns. It should be little different in nature to a discussion about banning smoking in public places or the enforced use of seatbelts in cars. It should be the same sort of discussion that would evolve if we were talking about people walking round with swords. It should be about statistics, facts, common-sense and evidence with a little libertarian passion thrown in for balance and good measure.Instead we have fear. We have conspiratorial delusions and paranoid behaviours being presented as arguments.Anyway - I am going to take my children to the park. I will be unarmed, unconcerned and unafraid. I don't expect to murdered or raped or tyrannised while I am out. I don't expect the lives of me or my children to be endangered by anything much more threatening than bad coffee and inclement weather. I will shut my front door when I leave (this is London rather than Canada after all!!) because if I don't some kids might well nick my bike or my laptop (but in all probability little else). I may or may not remember to properly key-lock the back door (I often forget but have yet to suffer any dire consequences as a result). I will leave the back window ajar so that the cat can get in and out of the garden (I keep meaning to fit a cat flap but have yet to get round to it). Should anything obviously bad happen to my property while I am out my neighbour will probably give me a call on my mobile. I am 98% sure that no ill consequence will come of this slightly lax approach to security. I am 99.9% sure that if there is any security issue it will be possessions rather than lives that are taken. This is in a multicultural neighbourhood within one of the largest cities in the world.I hear from people like Faith and ICANT and I count myself fortunate to be free from fear in this way. I suggest to both Faith and ICANT that their levels of fear and paranoia are unjustifed, unnecessary and unhelpful. As such I invite Faith and ICANT to set aside their fearful ways and find out what real freedom feels like. It's invigorating. It's a form of freedom worth fighting for.But I guess you guys are just too scared to try it.............

Hi Straggler, Why do you think history keeps repeating itself?
Why has there been so many instances like the one going on in Syria today?It is because of the despotism, and tyranny that you are not even willing to consider the possibility of them happening. Should I apologize for the military training I received for four years for a mission that never took place.I don't have to think about being vigilant, it is second nature to me.
I only have 2 doors to my house. They are steel doors swinging to the outside, in a jam that is rabited. there is 5/8s inch of wood that would have to be broke off for someone to kick the door in. My house came with these doors. Where do you get that idea from?If someone comes to my door I can see them on a monitor and know who is there before they knock, or ring the door bell. What makes you think that we have to relentless prepare, you act like that is work?We go to the firing range like many people go to the golf course, football game, soccer game, bowling alley or the beach.It is recreation for us to compete against others. What is not sane about how I live? Be specific. But since you don't know me you really don't know how I live. In a perfect world that might be correct. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world that is populated by people that have no respect for themselves or anyone else, or their property. No one has the ability to break through a steel door and enter my house and threaten me with a cigarette. But with a gun or knife in his/her hand they could threaten me. So why doesn't the FACT that only 358 people were killed with a rifle in the US compared to 745 being killed by hands and feet make a difference.We could save many more lives by cutting everybodys hands and feet off. Come to think of it that would solve the gun problem also. I have presented the facts and figures to back up my arguments.But when it comes to fear I have none. I fear no man, no animal, or death.The worst thing a person can do to me is to kill me and put me in heaven, so what do I have to fear?But that does not mean I have to be stupid and sit around waiting for an event like one of the following to take place and put me in heaven.3 die in home invasion
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos.1 dead 3 wounded in home invasion
Lumberton teen held in home invasion death - WWAYTV31 dead in home invasion
WPD investigates murder during home invasion - WWAYTV33 dead in home invasion
3 killed in apparent home invasion in Thomasville - WWAYTV31 dead in home invasion
Wesh1 dead in home invasion
Anderson News, Sports, Weather, Business | Independent Mail1 dead in home invasion
http://www.wtsp.com/...ct-arrested-in-Mulberry-home-invasion1 dead in home invasion
Teen Sentenced To 60 Years In Home Invasion Death - CBS Baltimore1 dead in home invasion
http://www.fios1news.com/longisland/node/185341 intruder dead in home invasion
http://www.cinewsnow.com/...-results-in-death-139650133.html1 dead in home invasion
Warrants of arrest issued for brothers in home invasion | CBC News1 dead but 2 shot in home invasion
Teen neighbor charged in fatal home invasion robberyThis is just a few of the thousands such events.In the US a home or business suffers a breakin every 14 1/2 seconds on average.Many of those are just as the ones referenced above.As I said I fear nothing or no one.I have possessed and used guns for most of my life. They are just as important to me as my skill saw, compressor or any other tools I own. They are a tool nothing else.I love to bowl and am a scratch bowler. I love to fish. I love to hunt. I love to go to the firing range and out shoot hot shots that are 50 years younger than I am.Paranoid = irrational fear or distrust of others:
Prepared = ready beforehand.I am prepared due to the military training I had. I stay prepared because I love to compete.So what is my problem?God Bless,

Hi Percy, You have made these statements several times and I have asked upon what stats you support your assertion.Do you have any or is your assertion just your opinion?God Bless.

I'm completely unprotected myself. I live in an apartment complex with something like fifty units. I leave the door unlocked during the day. I'm here all the time, pretty much housebound these days from severe arthritis, don't possess a gun or any kind of weapon. If someone wanted to do me in there's not a lot I could do about it. There's also nothing much I know of that I could do to be prepared for any sort of threat even if I wanted to. No fear, I just trust God.

Enjoy

If you click on "Percy Posts Only" you should be able to easily pick out the messages where I posted information and links concerning studies and statistics. Many others have done the same.Not only do the studies and statistics indicate that gun ownership increases the risk of gun death, it makes perfect sense for reasons we've repeatedly described to you. The odds of finding oneself in a situation where someone is intent upon murdering you is vanishingly small, and the odds of a gun providing effective defense even smaller, but the mere presence of the gun itself in your home or on your person is an ever present threat to all in its vicinity.--Percy

It's a little late to start playing dumb - you left a pretty detailed paper trail. You should reread your Message 1492 where you described how eternally vigilant and prepared you are. No one could ever get the drop on you, no one could ever break into your home, you're always trained and ready. If everything you said is true your life sounds like a living hell. You've become accustomed and conditioned to a climate of fear, one that unless you live in a place like East Saint Louis is not real and is just a construct of your own mind.Faith says she's unarmed and doesn't even lock her doors during the day, that she places her faith in God. That approach has a lot to recommend it.There is no need to cite a bunch of home invasion stories - no one is denying that they happen. The point is that the odds of a gun causing death are much greater than preventing death.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Fix garbling of last paragraph.

Then I challenge you to experience freedom from fear as I know it. I challenge you to abandon your mentality of fear for one month. For one month lock away your guns. Unbolt your doors. Turn off your intrusion detection system. Answer your door without checking your monitor first. In fact - turn off that monitor!! Leave your house without being armed. Let your grandchildren come to your house unannounced......Try to experience an existence where defense and security are not the overriding concern, an existence where these things are a peripheral to one's existence rather than some sort of raison d'etre. Your problem is that you have turned your hobby into a perceived necessity and thus way of life. Apparently for both yourself and your wife.What sort of freedom are you advocating when one's choice of past-time is limited to becoming an expert in fire-arms? I urge you to cast aside this fearful crutch and experience the world free from the tyranny of perpetual vigilance. Stop being a soldier. Start on the road to becoming a peaceful and peace loving citizen. And therein lies the rub. Because in a perfect society populated by perfect human beings a proliferation of deadly weapons would be neither here nor there. But in an imperfect society populated by imperfect human beings a proliferation of readily available deadly weapons will only ever exacerbate our worst impulses and homicidal tendencies. Hence the need for controls. It's not that I refuse to consider such eventualities. It's that I consider bolting myself in my house, afraid to answer the door without security monitor authorisation, surrounding myself with weapons and generally living in fear - To be a form of self-imposed tyranny and mental oppression.I reject your fearfulness. I reject your security-intense way of life. I reject any notion of freedom that involves imprisoning myself.

And ICANT has yet to show why all home invaders need to be shot dead.And he doesn't cite instances where no guns were used and nobody was killed.And he doesn't cite instances where nobody was home.EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : ..Edited by RAZD, : ...

Hi Percy, Why is a gun present in my home a threat to all in its vicinity?God Bless,

ICANT, again, I'm not referring to you personally. If you want to claim that you personally and those you know and love are in no danger from your firearms I have no wish to argue the point. I was, as I have stated before, using the impersonal you. A gun is a threat to everyone in the vicinity. Everyone nearby is at greater risk of gun death merely due to proximity. Nothing else is possible. The risk of gun death must be zero when no guns are around, and it can only increase when guns are introduced.--Percy

Hi Percy, I would agree that a gun in the hands of people who do not respect them and do not know how to handle them safely is a danger.The solution to that would be what is practiced in Switzerland.But how do you propose to get to zero guns?You would have to confiscate all the weapons in the US. Privately owned guns is well over 300 million guns.Police have almost 1 million guns.Military has around 3 million guns.All would have to go to get to zero weapons.The reason all would have to go is that the police and military lose thousands of guns each year. Some are stolen and some are sold on the black market by crooked military men and crooked cops.Then you have Mexico from which guns would come into the US.The criminals are not going to give up their guns.But if you could get rid of all the guns even the ones that the criminals have and shut the borders solid so no guns could enter.It takes $7 worth of material to make a 12 gauge shotgun that will fire a 12 gauge shell. It takes less that $25 worth of material to make a .44 cal. pistol. These are single shot weapons and all the parts required are available in most hardware stores.So everyone who reloads shells today would be able to still produce and have guns and ammunition.England is always pointed to as a success in gun control. Yet they have gun crimes and unarmed policemen killed by guns.In the 3 years prior to March of 2009 there were more than 165 pistols, rifles and machine guns lost or stolen from the Armed Forces.Read more: MoD has 'lost' 165 pistols, rifles and machine guns... and 27,000 rounds of ammunition | Daily Mail Online.So much for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.Now if you can figure out how to eliminate guns let me know what you come up with.But you are not talking about getting to zero guns. You are just talking about taking the right of the law abiding citizen to keep and bear Arms away from the citizens of the United States.In that case the ones left with guns could impose their will upon those who do not have guns.Until then I will keep mine.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, And I would challenge you to come to the US and live in an area of my choosing and leave your doors unlocked for 48 hours.The United States is not England.I lived in Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands for 15 years where no one is supposed to own weapons unless they are at the police firing range and stored there. During the time I was there the Country led the world at least 3 years of that time with murders per 100,000.To stay in practice I had to go to the police range and use a borrowed weapon ( I usually used Gov. Scotts weapons, he was kin to my mothers family) to stay in practice and to have the fun of participating in shooting competition.So I know what it is to live without guns. I just don't intend to live without my guns to hunt with or to protect my family with in the US. BTW there was nothing to hunt in the Caymans. I had the skills when I lived in a house that did not even have locks on the doors. I even kept guns in the unlocked house on a gun rack on the wall.Until I came back from the Cayman Islands I had never really thought about my skills as necessary for protection. But I did not come back to the country I had left. What is dangerous about me owning my guns?There are millions of people who are just as skilled in the use of guns as I am. Most started out with guns used to get food to survive, then went into military and learned to use guns to survive along with a lot of other survival techniques. Since we learned to love to shoot targets in military we continued to do so after leaving the military. You are free to reject anything you want too. If I lived in England I might be a little lax in my security but I doubt it. I would not have a gun but I would have all my other skills and would not be able to put them in the closet. And I have become accustomed to be sitting watching TV or working at my computer in the bedroom and the doorbell ring. I look at the monitor and see who is at the door. I can talk to them finding out what they need or want or if it is a salesman I can tell him/her I don't want any without ever getting out of my recliner. Just call me lazy but when I am typing a post to you I don't want to be disturbed. God Bless,

Yeah, we get that. That's why there exists law enforcement. Criminals get their guns through theft. So eliminating their source works out best.If only the criminals have guns then it's that mush easier to spot a criminal. Everyone here seems to ONLY be arguing for stronger gun laws, not a complete elimination of every gun. Even in coutries like the UK, some guns are allowed for hunting. Which, can inturn be used to bear arms.There is your possible future. Can you live with that?- Oni