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Author Topic:   Dating services and foreign women
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 61 of 174 (687268)
01-08-2013 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by foreveryoung
01-08-2013 11:39 PM


I am a very dark person ...
I could, of course, make a crack about getting out from under the sun lamp but I'll let the levity slide.
I'm sorry FY, I cannot relate to this. What does it mean to be a "dark person"?
I am not able to smile period, camera or not, except for very rare occasions.
What occasions? What makes you happy? What brings out the smile?
I just feel desperate sometimes.
About what? What do you think is causing you such anguish?
FY, I don't want you to feel I've abandoned you. I reached out to you and you, very quickly, reached back. This is good.
I have to end this now, not by choice. I will be back in about 12 hours, earlier if I can manage it.
Go have a cup of coffee, a sandwich, some cookies and maybe go rant and rave on one of the gun control threads. I'll be back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by foreveryoung, posted 01-08-2013 11:39 PM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 62 of 174 (687270)
01-09-2013 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by foreveryoung
01-08-2013 10:39 PM


I know I don't have a sense of humor. My roommate recently threw a party for me as I was going out of town for two weeks. She knows that I have ZERO social skills and it was an effort to help me improve. She took several pictures at the party and everyone managed to be able to smile for the camera except for ME. I mean I tried as hard as I could and even when I tried to force a smile, it still showed up as a frown on the picture. My lack of a sense of humor and my desire to have one is one of the reasons for my recurrent depression states. I try positive thinking when negative thoughts enter, but I guess it takes a long time to convince your brain that it is thinking inaccurately about reality. One person said the main thing that is keeping from having a sense of humor is my lack of the ability to say "I don't give a shit", and really mean it. The only time when I am able to say that phrase is when I have had a few drinks. I recognize that is a dangerous place to be in and so I don't take the easy way out on that problem. I take everything very personally and even take things that were never meant to insult personally. It's enough to make you want to slit your wrists, but I haven't because I still hold out hope.
Have you tried drugs? Judging by how stiff you are around people I imagine you haven't. You should try doing some mushrooms, or maybe try some MDMA. Go on a mental trip. Evolve your brain, dude.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by foreveryoung, posted 01-08-2013 10:39 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by foreveryoung, posted 01-09-2013 2:28 AM onifre has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 63 of 174 (687271)
01-09-2013 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by foreveryoung
01-08-2013 10:39 PM


A couple reading selections:
Der Steppenwolf by Hermann Hesse. It can get dark, especially the first part. Partially auto-biographical, a middle-aged writer (50) named Harry Haller feels completely alienated after he loses his readers because of his pacifist views and his wife goes crazy and kicks him out. When he turned 50, he promised to have an accident while shaving before he turned 51. He starts to learn to live again in part by learning to dance to jazz music (it was written in the 1920's), but even more importantly from starting to learn "Man mu lachen lernen" ("One has to learn to laugh"). Harry takes everything so seriously that he has to be taught to laugh at things instead. You don't even have to read it in German if you don't want to.
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein. Michael Valentine Smith born en route during the first Mars expedition was the sole human survivor having been raised by Martians. After returning to earth as a young adult, he tries to understand humans, really understand them, as in grokking them (the Martian practice of understanding something absolutely thoroughly). Yet laughter and humor completely eludes him for the longest time. Until one day at the zoo he watched a monkey catch some food thrown at him only to have it taken away from him by a larger monkey, so the first monkey takes it out on an even smaller monkey. Smith started laughing uncontrollably because he finally grokked laughter. Laughter isn't about nice things nor do we laugh at nice things happening, but rather at bad things, at somebody's misfortune perhaps even our own. As Smith explained it, "We laugh to keep it from hurting."
In my own case, early in our relationship my girlfriend "tried" to teach me how to dance (free style) by which all she did was tell me to follow the music and do what it told me to do. No steps or practice listening, just that one instruction and she expected me to right out there an apply it immediately. And of course I didn't know what to follow since I was a listener and always heard everything and couldn't isolate the "beat", so she declared me completely devoid of any sense of rhythm and unable to ever learn how to dance. I married her and for the next 25 years she kept brainwashing me about having no rhythm, etc. Then we started going to dance classes (salsa, then West Coast swing), but she dropped out and I continued. Already "knowing" that I could never ever possibly learn, I entered into dance classes just for the challenge and activity and the social atmosphere. In order to keep myself from becoming frustrated by my inability to ever learn, I decided to not take myself too seriously and to laugh at myself and at my own mistakes, plus I was and am always ready to accept personal responsibility when a move went wrong. Without trying, I developed the reputation among all the women of being the guy who's always laughing and smiling.
Now, smiling for a photo is something that I cannot do. A few years ago I was on a dance team that competed at the US Open (the real one, the swing competitions) and although I had the dance routine down solid the one thing I could not do was to have a stage smile. Just cannot do it. I assume that I smile when I interact with people; it's just something I'm not aware of nor can I turn it on an off.
You say you're a dark person inside, well so am I. I just have the attitude that that is for me to have to deal with and that it isn't something I should inflict on others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by foreveryoung, posted 01-08-2013 10:39 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by foreveryoung, posted 01-09-2013 2:33 AM dwise1 has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(2)
Message 64 of 174 (687272)
01-09-2013 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by onifre
01-09-2013 1:33 AM


Have you tried drugs? Judging by how stiff you are around people I imagine you haven't. You should try doing some mushrooms, or maybe try some MDMA. Go on a mental trip. Evolve your brain, dude.
Are you serious????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-09-2013 1:33 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 3:21 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied
 Message 74 by onifre, posted 01-09-2013 12:09 PM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 65 of 174 (687273)
01-09-2013 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by dwise1
01-09-2013 2:10 AM


You say you're a dark person inside, well so am I. I just have the attitude that that is for me to have to deal with and that it isn't something I should inflict on others.
I don't want to be a dark person anymore. Why would you just settle for "dealing" with it? I fricken hate it. I want to get rid of it; not deal with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 2:10 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 5:49 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied
 Message 76 by AZPaul3, posted 01-09-2013 2:07 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 66 of 174 (687275)
01-09-2013 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by foreveryoung
01-09-2013 2:28 AM


onifre writes:
Have you tried drugs? Judging by how stiff you are around people I imagine you haven't. You should try doing some mushrooms, or maybe try some MDMA. Go on a mental trip. Evolve your brain, dude.
Are you serious????
And you're telling us that you have no sense of humor? Onifre is a comedian and since when has being serious ever been part of their job description?
Though comedians will deal with serious stuff, but they try to present it from a different perspective, even if only slightly different. And from that slightly different perspective, we can learn to laugh about it, you know, to keep it from hurting so much. And maybe to teach us to not take everything too seriously. In so many movies, such as with Maj Frank Burns (Robert Duvall) in the movie, M*A*S*H, and Niedermeyer in Animal House, who is it who winds up the butt of all the jokes? The guy who takes everything too seriously, so don't be that guy.
How do you relax? What do you use to relax? Many people use chemical means, but that can lead to problems so, seriously speaking, you are wise to avoid them (and I am wise because I was born that way, seriously). Life is stressful, which is good because that helps to motivate us, but we all still need some way to deal with that stress and to find some way to relax.
Also, what onifre was referring to is basically changing your mental state. Or as a Frenchman said on the train into Paris as he picked up a comic book a kid had left behind, "Pour changer des ides." ("for changing ideas"). Drugs make people see things differently, though their side-effects are a downer. New ideas and new perspectives do the same, which is the comedian's stock-in-trade. If the way that you see things is what's causing you problems, then perhaps you need to see things differently.
Even there there's a caveat. Returning to the creation/evolution "controversy" (in quotes because I see it as artificial and made up by the YECist side), I keep seeing figures from conservative Christian sources of 60% to 80% of youth raised in conservative Christianity of some form losing their faith in early adulthood, and especially if they go to college or public school. My own personal bias for more than three decade is that that is because now they learn what science really says and what the scientific evidence really is; I think you are starting to relate to that now. But according to a blog that was linked to through Facebook (and the linker, Ed Babinski, a former radically fundamentalist creationist who has been very anti-creationism for decades, cannot find the link anymore; I asked him for it), the real culprit in college is not science, but rather the humanities. In the humanities, even in English literature classes, the experience is one of viewing things from a different perspective and of being exposed to new ideas. This is something that is new for a fundamentalist who has been raised thinking that everything must only be viewed from one single perspective.
Now, how you individually as a believer must deal with that is up to you; I've been a non-believer for about 50 years now even though was a fundamentalist fellow-traveller during the 1970's "Jesus Freak" movement. I'm sure that a common reaction is to reject one's religion, but I do not believe that that is the necessary decision. I was taught that apologetics deals in part with harmonizing the real world with one's religious beliefs, so you would need to make the attempt to do that harmonization (as I'm sure you have been regarding geology). I personally feel that one thing that should be kept in mind is that most of theology is Man-made and hence is subject to error. I do not feel that questioning your theology is the same as questioning God and I feel that it is necessary to question one's theology in order to weed out the parts that are wrong and to hold to those parts that are true, as it says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by foreveryoung, posted 01-09-2013 2:28 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(3)
Message 67 of 174 (687276)
01-09-2013 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by foreveryoung
01-09-2013 2:33 AM


I don't want to be a dark person anymore. Why would you just settle for "dealing" with it? I fricken hate it. I want to get rid of it; not deal with it.
I hate it too, but it is also part of me. I cannot cut it out of me, so I need to deal with it, even try to channel it to something more positive.
If you start partner dancing, one thing you will invariably have a problem with in the beginning is the connection and how to move your partner without trying to muscle her. I never went through that myself, because about 25 years prior to my first dance lesson I had practiced Aikido, the Art of Harmonizing Ki (life energy, mind, The Force). Really freaky stuff if you get into the right school that emphasizes Ki training. Ki flows through us all, so we control our own ki through four principles: 1) stay relaxed (not the same as being limp), 2) remain centered on your one-point (your center of gravity which is about where your belt buckle is), 3) keep weight on the under-side, and 4) extend your mind. If you have one, you have them all, but when you lose one you lose them all; the secret only advanced black belts learn is not in keeping the Four Principles at all times, but rather in regaining them when you lose them -- our sensei taught us that from an experience in his own advanced training. When you do start dancing, we can discuss how Aikido had taught me almost everything I ever needed to know about dance connection.
The basic "combat" principle in Aikido is the idea that the attacker (AKA "uke") in the act of attacking is projecting his ki towards the defender (AKA "nage"). If the nage tries to block or fight against the uke's attack, then the outcome is very likely to go to the physically stronger of the two. Therefore, the nage should "join forces" with the uke, in that he "blends his ki with the ki of the uke" and then redirects that ki keeping your own center while throwing the uke off of his center, such that in Aikido you never throw the attacker, but rather you "lead him into falling". In more Western terms, the defender does not seek to clash with the motion/momentum of the attacker, but rather he blends his motion with the attacker's such that the defender remains in control and in balance while the attacker is off-balance, such that the consequent motion sends the attacker flying. Though I have participated in exercises where I was able to "throw" the attacker without ever even touching him and had the same thing done to me; in Aikido we called that "leading the mind."
We went through several exercises. Rather than describe the more interesting ones, there is a simple one where the uke has both his hands clasped firmly on your wrist. Now, the best situation for the techniques is when there is already motion, but this starts from a stand-still, which makes it harder. If you push towards the uke or pull away from him, then that he can use his strength against you and it's muscle against muscle. But if you move at right angles between you, the uke is weaker. Now for the principle of extending your mind. If you try to move your wrist, then your mind stops at your wrist and you usually cannot move it. But if you extend your mind beyond your wrist out through your finger tip, then you are stronger; move your finger tip instead of your wrist and he cannot stop you -- a circular motion to start the motion usually helps.
The point I was trying to make there is that instead of confronting a strong force, such as your dark nature, you could accomplish more by blending with it and redirecting it. A counselor should be able to help you in that endeavor.
Picking a counselor. "America's most prominent atheist", Dan Barker, was raised a fundamentalist Christian and served several years as a fundamentalist minister. Back in the mid/late-1980's, I first heard of him when a local atheist group played his presentation to them on radio (simmer now, 15 minutes per week compared to how many hours of fundamentalist Christian broadcasting per week?). In that he described how he grew up listening to his mother singing in tongues while doing the housework. The point he was making there was what he described as "when your theology becomes your psychology." Basically, he was making an argument that fundamentalist Christians (and fundamentalists of other faiths, I would guess) psychologically think differently than non-fundamentalists do. What I have experienced and witnessed tends to support that view. During my divorce, the second most horrendous experience of my miserable life, a friend talked me into going through her mega-church's DivorceCare program. Because I had eyes to see and ears to hear (refer to Mark regarding the parables teaching about the mysteries of heaven, then read up on the mystery religions), I could see how that appealed to believers, but to a non-believer it was almost all pure rubbish. Far worse than rubbish because the recurring message was "you cannot possibly recover on our own but rather you need Jesus' help", which tells me, a non-Christian, that there is no possible way I could ever recover. Rather counter-productive, wouldn't you agree? Oh, it did have some kernels of wisdom in it, but those kernels were buried until mountains of sectarian religious nonsense -- nonsense to non-believers at least.
A second indication that Dan Barker was on the right track is the simple verifiable fact that there are basically two different types of counselors: regular counselors and Christian counselors. The very fact that there is a definite and separate market of "Christian counselors" serving a clientale that normal counselors are deemed unable to serve. What other reason could there be for so many Christian counselors unless there were an actual psychological difference between fundamentalists and normals?
A third indication was the long-running series of presentations at a second local mega-church (oh, but Orange County is so "blessed" by these mega-churches -- my friend was so incredibly surprised and pleased when she learned that I'm not only not a Republican (far too many Republicans here inside this Blue State) but also not a fundamentalist Christian like far too many other guys here, and women too judging from the listings in match.com), that were presented by two Christian counselors for singles. Singles are a big market here; Saddleback Church alone has a singles ministry serving about 15,000 singles. Oh, those two Christian counselors used several of the same principles as did normal counselors, but then they'd always twist it back around to a Christian perspective -- not surprising, since that was the audience that they were playing to. You need to set boundaries and do these things to make your life better. Why? Because that's what Jesus wants. OK, I'm not a Christian, so why should I make my life better? You're telling me that there's no fracking reason. You need to surround yourself with positive people who will influence you and lead you in the right direction. In what direction? To God. OK, I'm an atheist, so what does what you're saying have to do with me?
You see now, Christians and non-Christians (or at least non-Fundamentalist/non-Evangelical/non-Conservative Christian types) are being treated as having different psychologies.
What kind of counselor should you seek? Christian or normal? A normal counselor may not be able to deal with your religious concerns. But if your problem is precisely because of your theology, would a Christian counselor be the right pick for you? Would he be motivated to lead you back to "the light" (though I suspect that you are yourself suspecting that there is more darkness in your theology)? But then instead he might be able to help you harmonize your way through your problems.
In short, I am dark, you are dark. The blind leading the blind. I am not qualified to help you. You have to find your own way, but you can find help from others. Your dark is part of your; you would not be complete without it. Learn to deal with it. Learn to use it, to redirect it. To complement it with light. To grow by developing the other, non-dark parts of yourself.
Develop your social skills. I had one of the worst times in high school which almost thoroughly alienated me. But in college I formed friendships and acquaintances. I would hang out with fellow students and chat with them. I was usually more well-read than they were, having been a loner before, and I was told by one friend that what I said was often too deep for most. But you are now in the ideal place to start to develop your social skills. Hang out, chat, try to keep it light for the most part, but do argue your point when you do have a point and can support it.
Also, judging from your interactions here, learn that disagreement with your ideas is not equivalent to hating you. In your face-to-face discussions, don't take any of it personally. Even if it was meant to be personal, don't take it personally. Keep it all as academic as possible. In the process, learn to deal with others, both when they're behaving properly and when they're behaving improperly.
This is perhaps out-of-line, but it might help. There is a process called "socialization." No (as my friend's right-wing brother from Arizona mistakenly took it), it has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism. Rather, it is what every member of society needs to learn, how to learn to deal with everybody else in society. Part of the concern of home-schooling is that part of the school experience needs to be socialization, learning to get along with others. My friend once took a look at the Red-and-Blue map of the USA and noticed that the blue (Democratic) regions were on the coasts and centered around large population centers where you absolutely have to learn to get along with others whereas the red (Republican) regions were the sparsely-populated "fly-over" parts of the country where hardly anybody lives or has to learn how to get along with others. That is her own personal conceit, but she may nonetheless have a point.
We need to learn to socialize. I think you are very strongly expressing that need now. Socializing is where our strength lies as a species. Alone, we are nothing, but together we can reshape the face of the earth and beyond. And we are driven to socialize, which is why we are gregarious (wanting and driven to form into groups and find enjoyment in being in a group, in the company of others). Learn how to socialize, how to function within a group. You've described people who are trying to include you socially. People do care for you. Work with them, learn from them. They are trying to help you, so help them to help you.
You created this threat with the intent of finding an intimate female relationship. OK, that's one goal.
What I have found is that I form friendships with women more easily than with men; my father told me that it was the same for him. In my 61 years, I only had one intimate female relationship for about 30 years, but that ended in disaster; before that, there was another of some months, but in the end it didn't work out. Since the divorce, I've had three close female relationships, none of which were intimate. My point is that you are looking for an intimate female relationship, but most of the female relationships you will have will not be intimate. From your other message, you do have a female relationship and from my experience it is likely to not be intimate -- ruddy poor logic there, I'll grant you!
A lot has been made of the difference between men and women, perhaps much more than necessary, perhaps not enough. For example, my own life experiences have led me to be extremely distrustful of women's motives, even though I do like women. What do women want? What do they think? How are we men supposed to ever figure them out? There are the romantic comedies (which I enjoy but my friend hates), but who's writing them? There was even one, "Friends with Benefits", in which the female lead complains about romantic comedies being responsible for the unrealistic expectations people have. Steve Moffat's UK series, Coupling (available on NetFlix streaming), made a point of juxtapositioning male and female perspectives on the same issues/events. But ultimately, your best source of perspective is from your friends, especially your female friends.
When we graduated with our Computer Science degrees (but I still had two years of active duty before me), a friend (male, this time) sent out nearly 80 resums and only got one offer, but that is all it takes. Another friend had more experience with match.com and she said that it took about 300 hits to come up with one potential date. Bottom line: you only need one intimate relationship, but that never keeps you from having large numbers of other non-intimate relationships with either gender. Until that one intimate relationship comes along, your other female relationships can help you to figure out your various female contacts. You know, there's a thing called "flirting". I still haven't figured it out. At first, while I was still married, some of the women in class were doing things that I didn't understand. Now, when you're married, you learn to be blind to flirting, so when something happened in class that I wasn't sure of, I simply wrote it off as nothing. But now that I'm divorced, I'm still doing that. There's a funny episode of Coupling where one of the guys is keeping his phone line open while he's with a woman from work who likes him (but he has a girlfriend) so the women are there to translate what the woman is saying. The bottom line is that you will need to become more socially aware and conversant. Do make the fullest use of your female friends.
Back to dark for a moment. If you watch Doctor Who, review the 10th Doctor episode, Blink (if you have a friend with a NetFlix account, have him call it up). Early on in that episode:
Kathy Nightingale: "What's so good about sad?"
Sally Sparrow: "It's happy for deep people."
Just a parting thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by foreveryoung, posted 01-09-2013 2:33 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2013 10:14 AM dwise1 has replied
 Message 96 by Taq, posted 01-11-2013 1:26 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 68 of 174 (687289)
01-09-2013 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by foreveryoung
01-08-2013 11:39 PM


FEY writes:
I just feel desperate sometimes, like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I realise that you are using a metaphor - but to continue it: there is no actual tunnel.
Open your front door; look outside: it is a wide open world full of good and bad (and indifferent) things.
As someone who has gone from being unemployed and homeless to having a well-paid job and living in a large 4 bedroom house, I have seen there is very little that is "written in stone" when it comes to a person's life.
I know it is a clich, but the world is your oyster (or maybe some other kind of bivalve mollusc).
There is definitely not a fixed tunnel-like route through life.
{abe}Obviously, this post is no where near as good as DWise's post.
FEY:
Would it be ok for me to recommend DWise's reply for post of the month?
This is a personal subject, so I am not sure I should just "shout it from the roof tops"...
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by foreveryoung, posted 01-08-2013 11:39 PM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Heathen, posted 01-09-2013 10:02 AM Panda has replied
 Message 95 by xongsmith, posted 01-10-2013 8:16 PM Panda has not replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1304 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


(1)
Message 69 of 174 (687290)
01-09-2013 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Panda
01-09-2013 9:27 AM


This is a personal subject
yeah.. so personal he's discussing it in the coffee house on a public internet forum.
This place it turning into FEY's psychological helpdesk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Panda, posted 01-09-2013 9:27 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 70 of 174 (687291)
01-09-2013 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by dwise1
01-09-2013 5:49 AM


You know, there's a thing called "flirting". I still haven't figured it out. At first, while I was still married, some of the women in class were doing things that I didn't understand. Now, when you're married, you learn to be blind to flirting, so when something happened in class that I wasn't sure of, I simply wrote it off as nothing.
My wife finds this "blindness to flirting" thing utterly impossible to believe and quite annoying.
"You didn't notice that Melinda was all up in your space??"
Me: "No honey, who is Melinda?"
"Grrrrr..."

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 5:49 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 10:41 AM NoNukes has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 71 of 174 (687297)
01-09-2013 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by NoNukes
01-09-2013 10:14 AM


My wife finds this "blindness to flirting" thing utterly impossible to believe and quite annoying.
What does she expect you to do, be on the alert for advances from other women?
I felt that blindness was partially due to our faithful attitude of not being alert to or sensitive to such signals from other women because we're not supposed to be interested in them. Though it also occurred to me that our relationship with our wife served to more strongly attune ourselves to her signals, which are not necessarily similar to those of other women; indeed, her signals no doubt also changed in the course of the marriage.
Of course, within the context of the dance classes, whenever I wasn't quite sure what to make of something that could have been flirting, I consciously took the position of writing it off as innocent and just a case of my own misinterpretation. In the spirit of Ralphie's little brother in "A Christmas Story" whose response to bullies was to just lie down in the snow and not move, I felt that that carefully cultivated cluelessness was my only defense. Plus I learned that whatever I did would be wrong anyway; I think that's in the marriage contract somewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2013 10:14 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2013 11:17 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 75 by AZPaul3, posted 01-09-2013 12:43 PM dwise1 has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(3)
Message 72 of 174 (687301)
01-09-2013 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Heathen
01-09-2013 10:02 AM


Heaten writes:
yeah.. so personal he's discussing it in the coffee house on a public internet forum.
Hey...it is my first attempt at being considerate. Give me some leeway!

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Heathen, posted 01-09-2013 10:02 AM Heathen has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 174 (687304)
01-09-2013 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by dwise1
01-09-2013 10:41 AM


What does she expect you to do, be on the alert for advances from other women?
No. Her position is that the flirting is so obvious that it is completely implausible that I wouldn't notice.
I don't want to overstate her reaction. She just let's me know that she noticed flirting, and that's she knows that I did not instigate it. I am not aware that she's ever said anything to the flirter, just to me, the flirtee. And it's not like she's thrown hot grits on me either. We discuss the incident and it's forgotten. There may be incidents that she doesn't bother to mention.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 10:41 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(3)
Message 74 of 174 (687312)
01-09-2013 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by foreveryoung
01-09-2013 2:28 AM


Are you serious????
Yes...
Do some shrooms and get lost in a Pink Floyd album...expand your mind. There's more to life than the reality you're experiencing right now.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by foreveryoung, posted 01-09-2013 2:28 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by hooah212002, posted 01-09-2013 2:22 PM onifre has replied
 Message 86 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2013 6:08 PM onifre has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 75 of 174 (687317)
01-09-2013 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by dwise1
01-09-2013 10:41 AM


What does she expect you to do, be on the alert for advances from other women?
Good lord, Wise, have you not figured that out yet?
She wants him to openly and fimly reject any and all such advances, hints of advances, flirtations and so on. She wants him to declare to the flirter and to everyone within earshot (the more women the better) that he is a one-woman man and intends to remain so.
She wants him to then turn to her and recite with the love welling in his eyes:
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.
Then she'll give him a blowjob.
edit: Where is my conduct? That's Shakespeare, Sonnet 116
Edited by AZPaul3, : professional lapse averted
Edited by AZPaul3, : bad fingers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 10:41 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2013 3:16 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
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