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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
Eli
Member (Idle past 3491 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 136 of 310 (682703)
12-04-2012 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by kofh2u
12-04-2012 1:03 PM


kofh writes:
(NOTE: to critics who would prefer the Six Kingdom System we must note that Genesis speaks only of Two Kingdoms, specisically mentioning only Plants and Animal.)
Which is another nail in the coffin that Genesis is not scientifically accurate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 1:03 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 137 of 310 (682705)
12-04-2012 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by New Cat's Eye
12-04-2012 1:38 PM


That is not talking about bacteria, which didn't come from the land, are not "vegetation", and do not bear fruit.
One of the claims of the Theistic Evolution bible reader is that traditional church fathers did not read comprehensively and were strongly under the influence of pre-set psychological thinking restricted by social and educational paradigms of their own times.
When the JKV Bible translators interpreted many Hebrew or Greek/Latin words into English, they often restricted the proper and scientifically better choice in their selections.
The word "grass," in this case, was a fair guess in 1600AD, but better, in light of this day, "the first sprouts of the Earth" would have been more truly accurate for the word "deshe."
Gen 1:11 And (The First Cause?), God, said, Let the earth bring forth (life in a Spontaneous Generation of Bacteria which shall found the evolving and complex members of the Plant Kingdom upon the Earth, i.e.; the Hebrew word "deshe" is not grass but means "first sprouts of life on Earth"), grass, (from which early roots shall evolve) the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, (I.e.; all the Plant Kingdom to come), whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 138 of 310 (682706)
12-04-2012 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Panda
12-04-2012 1:48 PM


Re: Selective learning
Have you forgotten already?
There are more than 7 cosmological eras!
The links you provided are to geological eras - NOT cosmological eras.
The Big Bang Theory is NOT connected to geological eras.
"The Big Bang Theory is NOT connected to geological eras."
EXACTLY...
You are mixing the two different issues here to which all my post above have referred.
1) I am providing (mostly and only to you) references (specifically to the Big Bang chronology only) for what I posted in Gen 1:1.
These concern the 7 "stages"or eras, if you will, of the Big Bang Expansion plus the present eighth Matter Stage.
2) I am also talking to other people.
Those conversations are about the seven "days" that follow after the Big Bang is mentioned in Gen1:1.
There are six major collections of durations in the Rock classification, during which various evolutionary events occur.
The word era meaning milluons of years and the word eon, meaning billions of years, are used in my posts to those other people here.
Those specific events in the History of the Earth are related directly and correspond one-to-one with the Geological chronology as seen in the rock layers.
You and I have not yet discussed the seven "days" in Genesisa nd how they parallel the science of Histroy of the Earth as measured by the information found in six specific rock divisions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Panda, posted 12-04-2012 1:48 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Panda, posted 12-04-2012 9:18 PM kofh2u has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 139 of 310 (682712)
12-04-2012 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by kofh2u
12-04-2012 8:41 PM


Re: Selective learning
kofh2u writes:
1) I am providing (mostly and only to you) references (specifically to the Big Bang chronology only) for what I posted in Gen 1:1.
These concern the 7 "stages"or eras, if you will, of the Big Bang Expansion plus the present eighth Matter Stage.
You provided links to geological eras.
The Big Bang Theory is NOT connected to geological eras.
Your links are unconnected to the Big Bang Theory - therefore they don't support your claims about the BBT.
They are as irrelevant as providing links to General Motors and claiming they support the existence of aliens.
You seem to have a real problem differentiating between cosmological eras and geological eras.
You do understand that they are different, yes?
You do understand that there are more than 7 cosmological eras, yes?
You do understand that the BBT is unconnected to geological eras, yes?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 8:41 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 9:36 PM Panda has replied
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 140 of 310 (682715)
12-04-2012 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Panda
12-04-2012 9:18 PM


REFERENCED ASSERTIONS BY KOFH2U
You provided links to geological eras.
The Big Bang Theory is NOT connected to geological eras.
Let's review my references for stating in Gen 1:1 that seven stages generally describe what happened "In the beginning:"
/////
////////

Published by George Firth
August 13, 2009, Category: Philosophy of Science
1) The Planck Era
2) The Inflation Era
3) The Quark Era
4) Hadron Era
5) Lepton Era
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
7) Opaque Era
And 8), this present Era he calls "Now:"
///////
//////
Astronomy 162
Stars, Galaxies, and
Cosmology
In our first semester of astronomy we were concerned primarily with our own Solar System. In this semester we broaden our perspective and consider the entire Universe. Much of the material for this semester is already on the Web at the Violence in the Cosmos site, but it is arranged in a different order than it will be when the following sequence is completed.
Let us now follow the approximate sequence of events that took place in the big bang in terms of the time since the expansion begins.
1) Time ~ 1/100 Second
At this stage the temperature is about 100 billion Kelvin and the density is more than a billion times that of water. The Universe is expanding rapidly and is very hot; it consists of an undifferentiated soup of matter and radiation in thermal equilibrium. This temperature corresponds to an average energy of the particles of about 8.6
MeV (million electron-Volts). The electrons and positrons are in equilibrium with the photons, the neutrinos and antineutrinos are in equilibrium with the photons, antineutrinos are combining with protons to form positrons and neutrons, and neutrinos are combining with neutrons to form electrons and protons. At this stage the number of protons is about equal to the number of neutrons.
2) Time ~ 1/10 Second
Now the temperature has dropped to several times 10 billion Kelvin and the density is a little over 10 million times that of water as the Universe continues to expand. Because a free neutron is slightly less stable than a free proton, neutrons beta decay to protons plus electrons plus neutrinos with a half-life of approximately 17 minutes. Thus, the initial approximately equal balance between neutrons and protons begins to be tipped in favor of protons. By this time about 62% of the nucleons are protons and 38% are neutrons.
The free neutron is unstable, but neutrons in composite nuclei can be stable, so the decay of neutrons will continue until the simplest nucleus (deuterium, the mass-2 isotope of hydrogen) can form. But no composite nuclei can form yet because the temperature implies an average energy for particles in the gas of about 2.6 MeV, and deuterium has a binding energy of only 2.2 MeV and so cannot hold together at these temperatures. This barrier to production of composite nuclei, which allows the free neutrons to be steadily converted to protons, is called the deuterium bottleneck.
3) Time ~ 1 Second
The temperature has dropped to about 10 billion K as the Universe continues to expand, and the density is now down to about 400,000 times that of water. At this temperature the neutrinos cease to play a role in the continuing evolution, but the deuterium bottleneck still exists so there are no composite nuclei and the neutrons continue to beta decay to protons. At this stage the protons abundance is up to 76% and the neutron abundance has fallen to 24%.
4) Time ~ 13.8 Seconds
The temperature has now fallen to about 3 billion K. The average energy of the particles in the gas has fallen to about 0.25 MeV. This is too low for photons to produce electron-positron pairs so they fall out of thermal equilibrium and the free electrons begin to annihilate all the positrons to form photons. The deuterium bottleneck still keeps appreciable deuterium from forming and the neutrons continue to decay to protons. At this stage the abundance of neutrons has fallen to about 13% and the abundance of protons has risen to about 87%.
5) Time ~ 3 Min 45 Sec
Finally the temperature drops sufficiently low (about 1 billion K) that deuterium nuclei can hold together. The deuterium bottleneck is thus broken and a rapid sequence of nuclear reactions combines neutrons and protons to form deuterium, and the resulting deuterium with neutrons and protons to form the mass-4 isotope of helium (alpha particles). Thus, all remaining free neutrons are rapidly "cooked" into helium. Elements beyond helium-4 cannot be formed because of the peculiarity that there are no stable mass-5 or mass-8 isotopes in our Universe and the next steps in the most likely reactions to form heavier elements would form mass-5 or mass-8 isotopes.
6) Time ~ 35 Minutes
The temperature is now about 300 million K and the Universe consists of protons, the excess electrons that did not annihilate with the positrons, helium-4 (26% abundance by mass), photons, neutrinos, and antineutrinos. There are no atoms yet because the temperature is still too high for the protons and electrons to bind together.
7) Time ~ 700,000 years
The temperature has fallen to several thousand K, which is sufficiently low that electrons and protons can hold together to begin forming hydrogen atoms. Until this point, matter and radiation have been in thermal equilibrium, but now they decouple. As the free electrons are bound up in atoms the primary cross section leading to the scattering of photons (interaction with the free electrons) is removed and the Universe (which has been very opaque until this point) becomes transparent: light can now travel large distances before being absorbed.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/hotbb.html
////////
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning, (the Formative/Cosmology Era), God, (the Uncaused First Cause, or the Dark Energy which pre-existed the material Universe, perhaps), created... (all that which has followed the Big Bang from the singularity of Planck Time which consisted of
Seven Stages:
1) The Inflation Era
2) The Quark Era
3) Hadron Era
4) Lepton Era
5) Nucleosynthesis Era
6) Opaque Era
7) Matter Era,...
in an enormous Einsteinian energy transformation, E = mC^2),...
... the (matter composing the) heaven (beyond the Solar System) and the (accretion disk which was yet to congeal into a spherical planet) earth.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Panda, posted 12-04-2012 9:18 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Panda, posted 12-05-2012 5:41 AM kofh2u has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 141 of 310 (682718)
12-04-2012 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by kofh2u
12-04-2012 12:10 PM


Re: Re:Mnemonic learning
Hi kofh,
kofh writes:
I claimed that there was a time before that, around 1362BC I will specify now, when the tradition of the Jews says an Oral Torah existed.
Why was Moses told by God to write in a book some things if he did not write them in a book? Exodus 17:14.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 12:10 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 310 (682728)
12-04-2012 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
12-04-2012 9:52 PM


Re: Re:Mnemonic learning
Why was Moses told by God to write in a book...
Let's be more specific. Moses was told to record the battle against the Amelekites. He may well have done so. But he was not told in Exodus 17:14 to write the Torah. And as we have discussed in the past at least a small portion of the Torah describes Moses death and burial. It seems unlikely that Moses wrote that portion.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 143 of 310 (682736)
12-05-2012 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
12-04-2012 9:52 PM


Re: Re:Mnemonic learning
Why was Moses told by God to write in a book some things if he did not write them in a book?
I believe he did write the memorial of the event in a book.
And, it might even had been the growing works that would become the Torah by the time he died.
If we were pressed to support the argument that the Torah was available in full immediately once they had left Egypt, nwewould be hard pressed to show that the book mentioned in Ex 17:14 was that Torah, since other book were mentioned, too.
Was the book, the book of wars?
Is this written in the book of Jasher?
Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 144 of 310 (682737)
12-05-2012 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Panda
12-04-2012 9:18 PM


Re: Selective learning
[q]
You seem to have a real problem differentiating between cosmological eras and geological eras. [/qs]
?
Not aat all.
Above, I referenced six different Science sources that sum up the Big Bang pretty much in the seven steps which I did.
And, below here, I am listing the seven "days" of Genesis compared to the seven references of Science in regard to the History of the Earth:
1. Chaotian evening of the Formative/Cosmologic Era -
and the Cryptic morning of the Hadean Era/ = First Day
2. Early Imbrian evening of the Hadean Era -
and the Eoarchean morning of the Archaean Era/ = Second Day
3. Neo-archean evening of the Archaean Era-
and the Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era/ = Third Day
4. Neo-proterozoic evening of the Proterozoic Era-
and the Cambrian morning of the Paleozoic Era/ = Fourth Day
5. Permian evening of the Paleozoic Era-
and the Triassic morning of the Mesozoic Era/ = Fifth Day
6. Cretaceous evening of the Mesozoic Era-
and the Tertiary morning of the Cenozoic Era/ = Six Day
7. Quaternary evening of the Cenozoic Era-
and the Recent Epoch morning of the Common Era/ = Seventh Day

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Panda, posted 12-04-2012 9:18 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 145 of 310 (682739)
12-05-2012 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by kofh2u
12-04-2012 9:36 PM


Re: REFERENCED ASSERTIONS BY KOFH2U
kofh2u writes:
Let's review my references for stating in Gen 1:1 that seven stages generally describe what happened "In the beginning:"
Why should we review it?
It has already been shown that there are more than 7 cosmological eras.
Your list is incomplete - you admitted that.
Your claims are wrong.
There is no connection between the number of cosmological eras and the number 7 nor the 7 days in the Genesis story.
Do you agree or not?
There is no connection between the BBT and geological eras.
Do you agree or not?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by kofh2u, posted 12-04-2012 9:36 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by kofh2u, posted 12-05-2012 8:29 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 146 of 310 (682740)
12-05-2012 5:48 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by kofh2u
12-05-2012 1:48 AM


Re: Selective learning
kofh2u writes:
Above, I referenced six different Science sources that sum up the Big Bang pretty much in the seven steps which I did.
No, you didn't.
With the exception of one link that undermined your claims, all your other images are from your own web-page (even though it is clear you have stolen them from elsewhere).
You clearly have trouble finding any support for your claims, even from the trillion web-pages that currently exist.
kofh2u writes:
And, below here, I am listing the seven "days" of Genesis compared to the seven references of Science in regard to the History of the Earth:
I will get back to your cherry picking of geological eras after I have finished with your cherry picking of cosmological eras.
You do know that cherry-picking is fallacious and dishonest and undermines any claims you make, yes?
Did you read the link I provided to confirmation bias and cherry-picking?
Do you realise that you are cherry-picking your data to support your claims?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 147 of 310 (682746)
12-05-2012 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Panda
12-05-2012 5:41 AM


Re: REFERENCED ASSERTIONS BY KOFH2U
There is no connection between the BBT and geological eras.
Do you agree or not?
Yes, I agree that science examine the BBT as distinctly separate from what happens Geologically.
There are excepts that, like meteoric rocks which draw the attention of our geologists back into time before the Earth solidifies.
But the only "connection" we might propose is that the Big Bang beginning was part of a continuum in the History of the Earth/Cosmos that must be included when we read about the Cosmic Evolution reported in Genesis:
Chaotian evening of the Formative/Cosmologic Era - [/B]
and the Cryptic morning of the Hadean Era/ = First Day

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Panda, posted 12-05-2012 5:41 AM Panda has replied

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 148 of 310 (682747)
12-05-2012 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Eli
12-04-2012 8:03 PM


Which is another nail in the coffin that Genesis is not scientifically accurate.
I think the readers here ought be patient.
They need examine what has been said so far, open mindedly, entertaining a comparison between the actual events recorded in the six major rock layers against what the Bible reports to us about the Cosmic Evolution.
For instance, in the Cenozoic era which is the sixth "day" according to Genesis, we did see man created at the very end of an age that was 7 million years ago.
Our Paleontologists today have linked 22 predecessors to our ascent to Modern man, pretty much as the genesis story tells us:
Book:
The Last Human: A Guide to Twenty-Two Species of Extinct Humans
by G.J.Sawyer, (Author)
Surely, fair mind people open to seeing a rational connection between the bible and the facts can not easily dismiss this addition support for my theories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Eli, posted 12-04-2012 8:03 PM Eli has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 149 of 310 (682749)
12-05-2012 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by kofh2u
12-05-2012 8:39 AM


Nonsense
I've rarely seen such a pile of nonsense. I'm not even going to start trying to correct all the errors I see, and I see a lot as half my Ph.D. training was in the field of fossil man.
Suffice it to say that you are just rearranging facts in an effort to support your prior beliefs with no regard to whether they actually do or not.
(Also see signatures.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by kofh2u, posted 12-05-2012 8:39 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 150 of 310 (682752)
12-05-2012 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Coyote
12-05-2012 8:54 AM


Re: Nonsense
I'm not even going to start trying to correct all the errors I see, and I see a lot as half my Ph.D. training was in the field of fossil man.
?
You dispute the credentals of the cast of paleontolgists who wrote The Last Human: A Guide to Twenty-Two Species of Extinct Humans.
You fossil guys are the people i rely upon here to support with references the things I tell you.
This was the latest book on the matter, so I am standing behind this sources as at least placing Gnesis genealogy in he ball park of evolution of modern man.
I also point out the hint which assigns those impossible and inordinately long life spans, inferring that these links in our Family Tree are species, not individuals.
Then I draw your attention to Gen 5:2 which literally and directly claims that Adam is merely early Hebrew taxonomy for a particular species:
In Gen 5:2, god essentially called them, the man and his wife, the "Adamites,"... i.e.; a species:
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he THEM; and blessed THEM, and called THEIR name Adam, (a species), in the day when THEY were created.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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