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Author Topic:   The war of atheism
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 391 of 526 (681215)
11-23-2012 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:22 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
in a situation where a black person discriminated against a white person on along an axis where the black man had more racial privilege than the white person, that would be racism.
If this is how YOU determine what YOU perceive as racist, then cool. But it's certainly not the rule. I guess if you heard a black guy call another one a "dumb nigger" (where both are of equal social-economical status) you might not find that racist, but most would. Including public media. Including myself.
Maybe your only point here is that YOU ONLY JUDGE racism based on who YOU perceive as privilaged by some arbitrary line that YOU draw up?
Well, it's a trade in white stereotypes.
It's not, it's a humorous look into the white culture written by someone of the white culture.
You can't pick a book that has nothing racist in it and say "Look nothing racist is in it" --- yeah, no shit. You're example doesn't make sense.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:22 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by hooah212002, posted 11-23-2012 6:46 PM onifre has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 392 of 526 (681216)
11-23-2012 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by onifre
11-23-2012 6:20 PM


Re: Objectification and rape - Significant problem at atheist/skeptic conferences
But in cases where it was privilage-neutral (where it didn't matter one way or the other) it would still be sexism.
I don't see how, in that case, you could determine that it was discrimination. How do you have discrimination without privilege? How is that even possible?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:20 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:38 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 400 by hooah212002, posted 11-23-2012 6:58 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 393 of 526 (681217)
11-23-2012 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by onifre
11-23-2012 6:16 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
This is why I asked crash why he even brought it up; it's not a book about racist jokes.
Well, yes. My point is exactly that nobody thinks it's a book of racist jokes.
How can it be racist?
It's not. Nobody thinks it's racist. That's the point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:16 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:42 PM crashfrog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 394 of 526 (681218)
11-23-2012 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:33 PM


Re: Objectification and rape - Significant problem at atheist/skeptic conferences
I don't see how, in that case, you could determine that it was discrimination. How do you have discrimination without privilege? How is that even possible?
I would say that trying to determine which of the two is more privilaged IS sexism.
But to your point:
What if they were both women, of equal privilage, one was gay though. Can that be sexism without privilage?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:33 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by hooah212002, posted 11-23-2012 7:16 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 403 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 8:38 PM onifre has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 395 of 526 (681219)
11-23-2012 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:25 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
You're misrepresenting the context.
This is absolutely rich. I show you, point blank, that you are lying, and you have the cojones to maintain that I am still misrepresenting you. You have a large pair, my friend. Either that, or you are absolutely bonkers. The context of MY position has not changed. The context of our discussion has not changed.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:25 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 396 of 526 (681220)
11-23-2012 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:34 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
Well, yes. My point is exactly that nobody thinks it's a book of racist jokes.
Neither is the DaVinci Code. You could have used that as an example too.
But maybe I'm missing something. I'm a huge fan of his books, and I frequent the website. So, maybe something slipped past me that was racist and I didn't see it. Can you give an example of a "racist joke" that you read?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:34 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 8:39 PM onifre has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 397 of 526 (681221)
11-23-2012 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:31 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
"Lil Wyte"? Really? That's a guy, for serious? And you have to ask me if he's a racist? Jesus
Yes, you donkey cracker. He is a white rapper in a black rap super group. They are known as Three Six Mafia. Pretty popular, actually.
Yeah, I think it's racist when they call black people the N-word.
You are ignorant. I did not use an example of Eminem calling someone a nigger. I mentioned him using the word on his albums.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:31 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 8:40 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 398 of 526 (681222)
11-23-2012 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by onifre
11-23-2012 6:33 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
Maybe your only point here is that YOU ONLY JUDGE racism based on who YOU perceive as privilaged by some arbitrary line that YOU draw up?
This is obviously what it is, but he is making it out to be as though he is right and we are all wrong (which is obvious because he has said as such).

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:33 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 399 of 526 (681223)
11-23-2012 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:25 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
None of you have shown me even a single example; you've just shown me that you don't know what privilege is.
Here are some terms, are any of them racist or sexist:
- Women are stupid.
- All black people steal.
Are these racist or sexist?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 8:41 PM onifre has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 400 of 526 (681224)
11-23-2012 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:33 PM


Re: Objectification and rape - Significant problem at atheist/skeptic conferences
Because you can still have sexism and racism without discrimination or privilege. Maybe crash can't, but the rest of the world can, what with our correct usage of words and all.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:33 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 401 of 526 (681227)
11-23-2012 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by onifre
11-23-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Objectification and rape - Significant problem at atheist/skeptic conferences
What if they were both women, of equal privilage, one was gay though. Can that be sexism without privilage?
Let's even say they are both straight. One of these women says the other belongs in the kitchen cooking for her husband. Both straight and from the same neighborhood growing up and both of equal wealth now.
In what bizarro world is that not sexist?

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:38 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 8:45 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 402 of 526 (681228)
11-23-2012 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by crashfrog
11-23-2012 6:22 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
As you'll recall, though, I've already agreed with this and stipulated that, in a situation where a black person discriminated against a white person on along an axis where the black man had more racial privilege than the white person, that would be racism.
Here is another lie.
In Message 323, I said:
hooah212002 writes:
black people that make judgements against white people based on their skin color ("don't pick that cracker for the basketball team, he can't play ball cuz he's white") are not racist at all?
and you said (in Message 325)
crash writes:
Of course it's not racist!
So is your "agreement and stipulation" something that would require a different universe, one where apartheid and slavery never happened, because in your opinion WHITE POWER is real and white people really are more privileged than anyone else?
Since I have to break everything down to retard level for you because you don't grasp this concept and seem to only know the word "privilege": in my example, the black men had "privilege" because they had the basketball and the extra players and the white guy wanted to play basketball, but needed the black guys. The white guy is the underprivileged in this scenario.
To further point out and expound on Oni's point, merely having a certain skin color does not in all scenarios, grant universal privilege.
Should we continue pointing out your misrepresentations of yourself? Or are you ready to admit that 1) your bandying about your opinion as though it is the end all be all of correctness, all the while telling everyone they are wrong (admission of error is a good thing, the honorable thing) or b) admit you are wrong?
edit: Or the third concession you could make is that you simply don't know what racism is, be that due to your pampered lifestyle where you've never encountered non-white people and you only even know what you think racism is based on a book definition or sheer ignorance. It stands to say that the "crash is correct" is simply untrue.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 6:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2012 8:54 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 403 of 526 (681229)
11-23-2012 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by onifre
11-23-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Objectification and rape - Significant problem at atheist/skeptic conferences
I would say that trying to determine which of the two is more privilaged IS sexism.
That makes no sense. Privilege isn't something I'm making up, it'll be a function of very real cultural baggage that accrues to some people on the basis of their characteristics and not to others.
What if they were both women, of equal privilage, one was gay though. Can that be sexism without privilage?
Seriously, Oni? How do you construe that situation as being without privilege?
Have you genuinely never heard the term "heteronormative"? You must know it as one of those you-think-it's-bullshit academic Feminist/Marxist Theory-type buzzwords, but what it refers to is the privilege that accrues from being heterosexual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:38 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by onifre, posted 11-24-2012 12:29 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 404 of 526 (681230)
11-23-2012 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by onifre
11-23-2012 6:42 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
So, maybe something slipped past me that was racist and I didn't see it. Can you give an example of a "racist joke" that you read?
Can I give you an example of a racist joke from a book I've consistently asserted is not at all racist? No, Oni, I can't do that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by onifre, posted 11-23-2012 6:42 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by onifre, posted 11-24-2012 12:43 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 405 of 526 (681231)
11-23-2012 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by hooah212002
11-23-2012 6:44 PM


Re: Slogans, Privilege and PoCs
I did not use an example of Eminem calling someone a nigger.
I didn't claim that you did use such an example. Calm down, already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by hooah212002, posted 11-23-2012 6:44 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by hooah212002, posted 11-23-2012 10:38 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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