Summations Only

Are you citing the much-discussed elevator incident as an act of sexism that isn't misogynistic?

I believe we all have been the crazy guy, I have an aluminum hat to prove it. But here's what the rest of us don't do: lash out and call everyone a liar and say everyone is misrepresenting you and that there is an agenda or a vendetta out against you. That's crazy people talk.- Oni

I don't believe it has been stated that privilege is not involved in racism, what has been said is that it is not that only factor when someone is being racist. There is also no race that is privileged over any other race across the board. Which makes it possible for a black person to be racist toward a hispanic or an asian.You can have racism and not inlvolve privilege at all, such as in cases where people of the same social-economical class are racist toward each other. In this case privilege is not a factor, and you'll have to explain why it is.I'll just touch on a few other things: "Stuff White People Like" was written by a white guy, writing about stuff white people do. Of course that is not racist. It doesn't even make sense that you have brought it up as a point. There's a book out there called "How to be Black", it's basically the same as SWPL, but, it's written by Baratunde - a black comic. So it's not racist either. But if you switch up the writers, then it would take on a level of perceived racism. I don't know what world you live in, but cracker is most certainly seen as racist. In tv we get a list of "racist terms" from chink to the obvious nigger, but also in there is spic, cracker, honkie, etc. It is deemed racist as a word by at least standards and practice. What? I've never heard that before, and I thought I knew all the racist stereotypes.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

In Message 296, I said

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Racism is not synonymous with discrimination. You should try looking up the definition of racism if you are having such difficulty with this discussion.

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In Message 298, you replied with: So, instead of accusing the rest of us with misrepresenting YOUR position and lying, you ought to stop misrepresenting yourself.Racism is not merely discrimination. We have ALL shown you examples of what IS racism that is NOT necessarily discrimination and has nothing to do with privilege.. It's about how words are used. You are using words wrong. You are using the word racism as something that it is not. as jar would say, it really is that simple.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

I have already posted my justification for this and so has another person. By hey, go ahead and keep pretending you are right by ignoring what doesn't fit into your happy little rainbow land world.Oh yeah, and please answer the question you have ignored twice now:"Is sexual objectification" misogynistic," yes or no?

This is going to give crash, and people who think like he does (however few and far between those people are), the idea that it is not racist for the simple fact that it is white on white or black on black and not because of the context. I feel like I have to point that out simply because of this discussion, not that you don't know it.Aren't both of those things technically racist, though? Just because it isn't offensive and isn't meant to be offensive doesn't mean it's not actually/technically racist. If you tell a "racist joke", it's still racist, right? It's just funny and no one cares. Well, some might. It doesn't make you a racist.Am I being far too literal? Yes. I normally wouldn't or even feel like I would under normal circumstances, but I am sure there are onlookers who have the same odd misconstrued notion of racism.

Maybe judging it solely on the titles, I guess, it can be taken as racist. But I don't find books written by a race, explaining their race, culture and habits in a comedic fashion as racist. They're making fun of themselves, who they are and what their culture is like. Maybe it's more self-deprecating humor than anything else. Certainly not racist to me though.It usually comes from ethnicities and cultures who find themselves in the minority, as a view into their world via humor. The ironic part (and genius part in my opinion) of "Stuff White People Like" is that white people are not the minority, and everyone has had a look into white culture (or what is presented as white culture on tv, etc.) So a look inside white culture seems unnecessary, but the author pulls it off really well. It's unique and very funny.- Oni

Of course I agree. I was pointing at that someone, a someone with a stick in their ass, would be technically correct in taking it as racist. But another someone, a someone who doesn't seem to know what racism is, would say "see, see, you agree with me. black on black is not racist and any race on white is not racist".

It's not racist because it's meant to be funny. I've never read it, so I can't say, but I bet you that the KKK Neo Nazi guy thinks it's racist and is probably pretty pissed. But I've never read it. So all the white rappers (Eminem, Lil Wyte, for example) are racist? It's racist when they use it? Funny, then, how they are so readily accepted into black circles. Also funny how A LOT of black people don't seem to mind. There's a lot you seem to need to learn about racism and social context. For example: me and Oni crack jokes all the time (like where I made a comment about his affinity for tacos and how he is lying now saying he doesn't actually liek them). He doesn't think I am racist for saying that, nor is he offended. I could ALSO make the comment that he is most likely rolling a cigar right now and he still wouldn't be offended. Why? Because he knows I am only kidding. Does that make it not technically racist? No. Those comments are technically racist.The word nigger is racist when ANYONE sees a black guy and says something like "look at that nigger" or in anyway arbitrarily refers to a black person as a nigger. I have certain black army friends who are fine with me if I refer to them as "my nigga" (I'm sorry if you are too white to understand that). I have mexican friends that I say "odelay vato" to when I see them. Why? Because it's funny. Again, I am sorry if you are too much of a cracker to understand this. YOU are the one saying those things aren't racist. But, I will defend why I, personally don't find them offensive: it's funny. Well, not the cheese part because you really must be a racist to have come up with the idea that only white people like cheese. Why is it funny? Because I'm not a stick in the mud. HOWEVER! If some random other race person came up to me and asked me to have a dance competition, then laughed and saifd "yea right, you ain't gonna dance cuz you a cracka". Yea, I'd be offended because it's god damned racist.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

I feel like I've been pretty clear about my position, and I know I'm not supposed to accuse you of deliberately misrepresenting me, so let me try again for, like, the sixth time - if you had a situation where more privilege accrued to being a woman than being a man, and in that situation a woman discriminated against a man, then that would be an act of sexism that was misandrist, not misogynistic.

This is why I asked crash why he even brought it up; it's not a book about racist jokes. That's why I said it didn't make any sense to reference it. How can it be racist? It's a book written by a white guy about the white culture in a funny way.If it was a book about racist jokes, for example, no matter who wrote that it would be racist.Things can be racist regardless of who says it or writes it. Interpreting whether something is racist, while quite subjective, is also very much objective. We can all tell.A black person can say "nigga" on tv, on some networks. But, a black person could not come out on tv and say "Niggers are criminals" even though they are black. Why? Because it would be construde as racist. Thus, black can be racist to black and race can be racist to the same race.- Oni

But in cases where it was privilage-neutral (where it didn't matter one way or the other) it would still be sexism.- Oni

As you'll recall, though, I've already agreed with this and stipulated that, in a situation where a black person discriminated against a white person on along an axis where the black man had more racial privilege than the white person, that would be racism. But it's just a matter of trivial observation that those situations are vanishingly rare. Well, it's a trade in white stereotypes. And of course it's not racist in any way - that's my point. But Rahvin and Hooah have their work cut out for them explaining why it's not racist, because by the simplistic and wrong definition that racism is "any time you make a judgement about someone based on race", "Stuff White People Like" would be something they have to conclude is racist.But it's not. You know it's not, I know it's not, everybody seems to know it's not. Hooah and Rahvin don't act like it is, either; I can't get them to say that it's not, because I can't get them to address the example. But they can't deny that it's a problem with their model - it's "racist" as they define the term, but nobody (not even them) seems to actually think it is. That's my point, and I don't know how to be any clearer about it - their conception of racism is a priori wrong because it arrives at conclusions we all know are wrong.

You're misrepresenting the context. Clearly, I meant that racism is synonymous with discrimination based on race because that's the position I've been defending throughout. Obviously, racism wouldn't be synonymous with discrimination based on sex or class, those would be sexism and classism.Regardless, I was unclear in my brevity and I apologize for the confusion. But seriously you have to read my posts in context. If I change my position, I'll let you know and account for it. Racism is discrimination based on privilege that accrues according to race. Obviously, it's not discrimination based on anything else. Words do mean things. None of you have shown me even a single example; you've just shown me that you don't know what privilege is. Every single example put forth that is supposedly without privilege has been full of privilege.Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

It's possible for a joke to be both funny and racist. I'm pretty sure we can all think of examples. So being funny isn't what proves its not racist. Yeah, I think it's racist when they call black people the N-word. ("Lil Wyte"? Really? That's a guy, for serious? And you have to ask me if he's a racist? Jesus.) Pretty obviously, I would say. But not when Eminem does it? I don't understand your rules, I guess; mine make a lot more sense. It's a lot easier to detect a difference in privilege than it is to read someone's mind and determine if they have "hatred" for another race, or just maybe don't like them, or were trying to be funny, or whatever. Privilege is a lot easier to detect. The way you do it, you can't actually know as a practical matter whether anyone has ever said something racist. I didn't say that "only white people like cheese."