Summations Only

Are you really that dense that you really have no clue what racism is? It's RACIST because it is based on RACE. You know, the color of someones skin. Words have meanings and uses for a reason.

Yes, for instance, as a result of the privilege afforded, in the black community, to those individuals who have light skin compared to those who have dark skin. Once that was known as the "paper bag test"; if your skin was a lighter shade of brown than a paper bag, you were afforded the privilege of being considered "light-skinned":

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There is, too, a curious color dynamic that sadly persists in our culture. In fact, New Orleans invented the brown paper bag party usually at a gathering in a home where anyone darker than the bag attached to the door was denied entrance. The brown bag criterion survives as a metaphor for how the black cultural elite quite literally establishes caste along color lines within black life. On my many trips to New Orleans, whether to lecture at one of its universities or colleges, to preach from one of its pulpits, or to speak at an empowerment seminar during the annual Essence Music Festival, I have observed color politics at work among black folk. The cruel color code has to be defeated by our love for one another. -- Michael Eric Dyson, excerpt from Come Hell or High Water.

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In other words, privilege. Class privilege, probably. My guess, anyway. I never said that it is only ever perpetuated by white people. Where do you think I said that? The point is that racism is only that which occurs because a privileged race discriminates against a less privileged one. When a less privileged race "discriminates" against a more privileged one, it's not really racist because it can't really be racial discrimination. It's like how "Black History Month" doesn't discriminate against white people, but "White History Month", if it existed, would discriminate against everybody else.I'm surprised, I guess, that anybody who lives in the real world is surprised by this. Isn't this how it works? Does any part of this seem unfamiliar? Didn't you all notice that we have Black History Month but not White History Month, and why? Jesus, why on Earth did you think that was?

Yes. Racial privilege. And the difference in privilege thereof. Why do you think there even is discrimination associated with race, Hooah, but not with (for instance) shoe size?It's because privilege broadly accrues more to members of some races than among others, but there are no privileges associated with shoe size (beyond, I suppose, shoe manufacturers making shoes in your size.)Man, things must be all kinds of mysterious to you, if you don't know how to think about privilege. Like you have no fucking idea why there's a BET, but not a WET.

Are you being ignorant on purpose? Where did I say anything about light skinned black people? What? Now there is privilege in being a poor Mexican? You really are ignorant. Uh, you continue to say it. You said a black supremacist is less racist than the KKK. In the very next sentence following the one I am commenting on, you said racism only occurs where there is privilege. You said it would NOT be racist for a black man to call you a cracker.You are the one conflating privilege with racism and discrimination. You still don't know what the term racism means.

Do you realize that we are talking about racism? Just racism. You still cannot accept the common definition of the word racism. Stop conflating terms. Ahh, so YOU think Asians are more privileged than Blacks.You're a racist. What do you think CMT is, jackass?Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

As we mature, we change and become better citizens... well, most of us do, at least. And I do think all people are capable of being shown the right way, but I'm not sure you can teach or make people *acquire* empathy. I thought I read that people were born with a predisposition to certain levels of empathy, but those born without that ability would never be able to have it. I will have to look into this more. I know what you mean. I think it makes me a better manager, though. Gotcha. I've done the same thing in this thread and it's not been recognized for what it was. Goes with the territory.

Is it mysterious to you that YOU are the only one harping on privilege while me and Rahvin are talking about racism? Does that strike you as the least bit odd?

Is "sexual objectification" misogynistic, yes or no?

You didn't. I did. I was giving you an example of what you were talking about - racism within black communities. No, there's privilege in not being a poor Mexican. Yes, because of the privilege. Not because of the whiteness qua whiteness, but the whiteness qua privilege. In an alternate Earth, where it was more privileged to be black than to be white, if a black person discriminated against a white person, that would be racism. Here it's not, because the privilege situation is reversed. In a yet alternate-alternate Earth, where no privilege accrued to anyone because of their race, nothing would be racist, in the same way that nothing in our world is "shoe-size-ist" because no privilege accrues according to your shoe size.I just can't understand, Hooah, how you possibly make sense of when discrimination happens and when it doesn't without some notion of privilege. It's central to the very idea of "discrimination." Of course it wouldn't. Do you genuinely know even a single white person who would be upset by that? Do you know why that is? Because it's not racist. Do you know why so-called "anti-white racism" just isn't something that people take seriously? Because it's almost impossible for it to happen. It requires such a bizzarre and unlikely turn of events for any white person to be the one who is less privileged because of his race that it's just not something anybody cares about.Did you just not notice any of that? That nobody gives a shit when you try to complain about "racism" against white people? And you're calling me out of touch with reality?

Yes. Aka "discrimination that happens because of racial privilege." Asians are afforded more racial privilege than black people, yes. That seems relatively obvious. Or MTV, for that matter. Do you understand the point?

The fact that you're asking implies that you know that neither Watson nor I have yet said that it was, thus proving my contention that we're talking about things Watson did not say as though she's said them.Can we please restrict the discussion to what people have actually said, please?

So this is the difference, right here. You think it's only racism or sexism if someone is offended.Words have definitions and this conversation hasn't even gotten past you not knowing that racism is racism regardless if someone is offended or not. For example: if I tell Oni to go eat a taco, it IS RACIST but he likely won't get offended. Hell, it's not even accurate since he's Cuban, but it's still racist. It is NOT, however, racial privilege. Its is simply racism. RACISM, NOT RACIAL PRIVILEGE. You are just too much of a honky to understand racism. You are so wrapped up in cracker land that the only racism you know is what you read in your college textbooks.I will repeat that again: words have meanings and accepted uses. You don't understand the accepted usage of the word racism, therefor discussion about the subject with you is pointless.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

How do you explain the difference, then? How do you explain that nobody thinks it's really very racist to call a white guy "cracker" in your world where there's no such thing as privilege?I mean, if white people and black people are each as likely to be subject to racism in exactly the same way, then how do you explain things like institutional racism? How do you explain how none of the victims of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment were white? How do you explain the fact that a resume with a black person's name on it is less likely to receive a call for an interview than a white person's resume, even if the resumes are identical? Even if the resumes are identical except the white one has a felony conviction for workplace theft?I just don't see how your "privilege-free" model can actually make sense of anything. It's obviously wrong. No, you don't:

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Sociologists Nol A. Cazenave and Darlene Alvarez Maddern define racism as ...a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RacismPrivilege is central to the notion of racism.

No, crashfrog, RACISM. Plain old racism. The kind of racism where the black guy thinks white people can't dance or that asians are good at math or that Oni loves tacos. Plain old fucking racism. Are you seriously saying MTV is a white equivalent to BET? You have no idea what racism is..... so much so that you are racist as fuck.

BECAUSE I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BEING OFFENDED. I AM TALKING ABOUT DEFINITIONS OF WORDS. Whether something is offensive or not doesn't change the fact that an action falls into the definition of a word. What "privilege free model" are you fucking talking about? You will notice that my "model" is one that the nigger that calls Jackie Chan a slant eye gook is just as racist as the wetback that calls him a nigger. but you'll have us believe that I am the only racist in that scenario because I am more "privileged" than all of them.

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Sociologists Nol A. Cazenave and Darlene Alvarez Maddern define racism as ...a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy.

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Really grasping now aren't ya?