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Author Topic:   Warp drive not science fiction after all?
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 1 of 18 (673257)
09-17-2012 6:28 PM


I am not sure if this is the right forum to post in but thought this would be an interesting topic to talk about. As a peruser of scientific news, I found this interesting article announcing that creating a 'Warp Drive' is not relegated to the dustbin of Star Trek fantasy.
http://news.discovery.com/...0yss-120917.html#mkcpgn=rssnws1
Physicist Miguel Alcubierre suggested a concept of a warp drive using a ring of exotic matter that would 'warp' spacetime and allow a spacecraft at its center to travel at faster-than-light speeds. Further refining of Alcubierre's conceptual warp drive suggests that such a craft could be designed with reasonable amounts of energy and matter.
http://i.huffpost.com/...75752/thumbs/s-WARP-DRIVE-large.jpg
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Shield, posted 09-17-2012 7:14 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-17-2012 7:49 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 09-18-2012 12:10 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 3 of 18 (673260)
09-17-2012 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Shield
09-17-2012 7:14 PM


Yeah, that happens every once in a while.
This time, as always, it is not related to some soft scifi tech from star trek, they just choose to call anything FTL, "warp drive".
I stil don't believe it will happen though. E = mc2 man, E = mc2.
But how is warping spacetime violating mass—energy equivalence? I don't believe the energy content of the universe is changing at all. We are just relocating matter from one location in spacetime to another location, correct?
Maybe a better way of stating this is that the matter in the spacecraft does not need to be converted to pure energy to travel at light speed because instead you are 'moving' or more accurately 'warping' spacetime around it. I am in way over my head here of course.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 5 of 18 (673262)
09-17-2012 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Adequate
09-17-2012 7:49 PM


Exotic matter not totally unfeasible I think.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2011/08/110812161813.htm
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-17-2012 11:10 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 9 of 18 (673269)
09-18-2012 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Adequate
09-17-2012 11:10 PM


Hmm, there seem to be a dozen types of 'exotic' matter out there. What exactly is this 'exotic matter' they are talking about and how would we get a bunch of it to form a ring around a spacecraft? Doing more reading to figure this out.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 10 of 18 (673270)
09-18-2012 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate
09-18-2012 4:48 AM


Okay, believe the exotic matter the article is talking about has negative mass. That is to say the energy content in a particular 'area' of spacetime is less than zero which creates in essense a wormhole through the spacetime fabric of the universe. However since space and time are connected, travelling using this 'warp drive' would not only allow you to 'travel' or rather 'warp' through space but also time as well, creating in essense a time machine as well as a fantastical space craft. Interesting.
Here is an article that more eloquantly discusses what negative or exotic mass is.
Negative Energy - Wormholes and Warp Drive
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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 Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-18-2012 4:48 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

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 Message 12 by Blue Jay, posted 09-18-2012 11:57 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 15 of 18 (673385)
09-18-2012 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Blue Jay
09-18-2012 11:57 AM


My understanding is also that the Alcubierre drive suffers from what they call "time dilation" in sci-fi stories. That is, it only seems to go faster than the speed of light from the perspective of a passenger inside the ship. From the perspective of someone outside the ship, the ship does not actually go faster than light.
That means, for those of us watching, a Voyager probe with an Alcubierre drive still wouldn't reach Alpha Centauri for hundreds of thousands of years.
How would spacecraft travelling 10 times faster than the speed of light succumb to time dilation that effects objects traveling close or at the speed of light? Is warping spacetime to 'travel' faster than the speed of light subject to special relativity the same as objects traveling slower than the speed of light. Still trying to wrap my head around this.

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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 16 of 18 (673386)
09-18-2012 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
09-18-2012 12:10 PM


Wouldn't warping spacetime mess up your destination?
That is an interesting proposition. Does warping spacetime permanently affect spacetime the spacecraft is 'traveling' through?

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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 17 of 18 (673388)
09-18-2012 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Son Goku
09-18-2012 12:32 PM


Re: Warp Drive.
Alcubierre originally wrote down the spacetime with a warp drive bubble inside. Unfortunately the matter the field equations say is necessary to form the bubble is physically unrealistic.
Why is the buble physically unrealistic? Just curious.
Also, the deeper problem is that quantum field theory forbids the kind of matter the drive requires from existing. Basically you need large negative energy densities, but quantum field theory doesn't allow energy densities that large.
Why is the universe predisposed to positive energy densities as opposed to negative? And what does this exactly mean? How can you have negative energy? I am not really understanding this process. Will do more reading.

This message is a reply to:
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