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Author Topic:   What type of biological life will more than likely be found on other planets?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 150 of 178 (671155)
08-22-2012 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Dogmafood
08-22-2012 4:39 PM


Re: Rare sapience
You are free to believe that but that is NOT what the evidence shows.
The fact that there are far more types of unintelligent critters is relevant because it shows that other methods work even better than intelligence.
Again, you are free to contend that Oni's level of intelligence is likely to develop wherever evolution is at work, but frankly, I see absolutely no reason to think that is the case and see lots of evidence that says in most cases it would be impossible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 4:39 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 5:55 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 169 by RAZD, posted 08-23-2012 9:06 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 153 of 178 (671166)
08-22-2012 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Blue Jay
08-22-2012 5:56 PM


Re: Rare sapience
When we talk about what life we will find on other planets it is all speculation.
Remember I am saying that "human intelligence" (and the concept of technology and knowledge accumulation and transfer beyond the immediate person to person) is the result of a confluence of a whole herd of factors.
Lifespan is one factor. In a short life span there is simply limited time for accumulating knowledge and unless there is some method of accumulating and passing on that knowledge and transferring the knowledge beyond the immediate group knowledge gained in that short lifespan gets lost.
On need (and I'll try to tie it into the above); need (and desire) drove another uniquely human trait and that is "trade". The idea of taking something readily available in one area to an area where it was not readily available and trading it for something that was in short supply somewhere else is one of the things that indirectly led to the human transfer of knowledge and technology.
Looking at the example of other animal we see something entirely different, the animals going to the source. Again looking at the example of the imagined "Mental Society" since going to where an item is is easier than moving the item slowly through trade it's unlikely trade as we know it would develop.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Blue Jay, posted 08-22-2012 5:56 PM Blue Jay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2012 6:31 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 155 of 178 (671169)
08-22-2012 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Straggler
08-22-2012 6:31 PM


Re: Rare sapience
Of course intelligence played some part, but other intelligent critters did NOT develop trade.
Like the other "human traits" it seems to have developed only once.
It is just another example of unlikely things to find in life on other planets.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2012 6:31 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2012 6:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 157 of 178 (671174)
08-22-2012 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Straggler
08-22-2012 6:52 PM


Re: Rare sapience
I'm not sure that thinking abstractly is really a measure of intelligence or how that could be tested in other critters.
Why I don't think it likely is really pretty simple.
First, in the billions of species that evolved in the one sample we know of human type intelligence only developed once and no other intelligent critter developed anything like it.
Second, it does not seem to be a bigger advantage than other strategies like being fecund or using a readily available energy source like the sun (as plants do) or any of the many, many other successful strategies.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2012 6:52 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2012 7:09 PM jar has replied
 Message 160 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 8:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 159 of 178 (671177)
08-22-2012 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Straggler
08-22-2012 7:09 PM


Re: Rare sapience
Only when you expand the term so far that it has no real meaning.
Intelligence is only a small part of what drove human development only because all those factors happened to come together did we become what we are. Even then it is not "Humans" in general that developed the technology or accumulated the knowledge to be transferred but rather a really small subset of humans.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2012 7:09 PM Straggler has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 161 of 178 (671185)
08-22-2012 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Dogmafood
08-22-2012 8:46 PM


Re: Rare sapience
Not all that common, it is still by far the exception than the rule.
Again, I doubt that it is an intelligence threshold, rather the result of many different factors most unrelated to any increased intelligence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 8:46 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 9:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 163 of 178 (671188)
08-22-2012 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Dogmafood
08-22-2012 9:02 PM


Re: Rare sapience
Of course I can. There are far more and have always been far more living things that have no brain, and it ain't even close.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 9:02 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 9:27 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 165 of 178 (671192)
08-22-2012 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Dogmafood
08-22-2012 9:27 PM


Re: Rare sapience
It's not just plants but all the single celled life, the insects, and much of the animal life.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 9:27 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 9:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 167 of 178 (671194)
08-22-2012 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Dogmafood
08-22-2012 9:53 PM


Re: Rare sapience
I look out the window and see plants and trees and worms and some slugs and insects (that are not intelligent by any measure I know of) and the occasional bird or chameleon. By far the things that can be said to have intelligence are in the minority.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Dogmafood, posted 08-22-2012 9:53 PM Dogmafood has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 170 of 178 (671214)
08-23-2012 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by RAZD
08-23-2012 9:06 AM


Re: emergent property?
You're right, I should not have used the term "better".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by RAZD, posted 08-23-2012 9:06 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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