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Author Topic:   Gun Control
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(4)
Message 16 of 310 (668971)
07-26-2012 9:51 AM


Inclusive
Every American adult should be able to own a gun.
There should be few restrictions to owning guns.
There should be few limits to the number or size of those guns.
What could go wrong.
As to the 2nd Amendment's statement on bearing arms: in the 200 years since it's inception it has proven itself to be indispensable.
What use would the removal of such an oft used and necessary stipulation be.
How many times would the citizenship have fallen to their own army's guns without that clause.
And, furthermore, the Constitution cannot be wrong: IT IS MORE THAN 200 YEARS OLD!!
As the bible gets older, it more and more reflects modern society.
The same applies to the American Constitution.
What does it matter if people are killed by gun-toting maniacs.
Do you really think that taking guns from maniacs will stop them from shooting people.
Anyway, it was the victims' fault they were killed: they didn't bring their god-given guns to the cinema to defend themselves with.
In an ideal world, everyone at the cinema would have been armed and there would have been 100's of people firing their guns in the crowded auditorium.

CRYSTALS!!

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:41 AM Panda has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


(3)
Message 17 of 310 (668972)
07-26-2012 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 8:58 AM


Us poor scared people
crashfrog writes:
I mean, I get it - you're scared of guns.
I love this You said the other day there was no alpha male business going on here, and yet this smacks of it.
So... I can't recall your stance on Intelligent Design, but if you oppose it, can I assume that's because you fear it?
Like it or not, the vast majority of the civilised world looks at US attitudes towards guns and shakes it's head in disgust, whilst facepalming about how massacre after massacre just get ignored, forgotten. You can keep denying it all you want, but the fact remains that the rest of the western world is more socially advanced than the USA. You guys are living in the 20th century when it comes to things like pro-gun attitudes, anti-homosexual attitudes, anti-social programme attitudes, etc.
I'm ashamed. I wish I could hide my accent better sometimes.
Edited by Briterican, : used a more appropriate word in one instance

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 8:58 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:28 AM Briterican has replied
 Message 24 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 10:38 AM Briterican has replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 18 of 310 (668974)
07-26-2012 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by ScientificBob
07-26-2012 8:32 AM


Thank you Bob
ScientificBob writes:
I don't post here often and am more a lurker then anything else. But this is a topic I would want to add my 2 cents to as a European looking at gun policies in the US.
ScientificBob writes:
Are any of your surprised at the level of violence and murder with firearms in the US, vastly outperforming any other first world country?
There are more guns in the hands of civilians then there are actual civilians in the US.
I think that at the VERY LEAST, there should be a clear line between defensive weapons and assault/war weapons. Be serious, no civilian needs a Rambo-sized gun.
Frankly, I think it's sickening. Getting a hold of massive weaponry in the US is FAR to easy.
Thank you Bob. Your post summed up very well the astonishment with which Euros view this nonsense.
I agree. It is sickening.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 19 of 310 (668975)
07-26-2012 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by ScientificBob
07-26-2012 8:32 AM


I am amazed that so many people don't see the difference between keeping a small handgun hidden somewhere safely in your bedroom and having a garage stuffed with M16's and whatnot.
Do you have any idea how much that would cost? I realize its hyperbole, but the anti-gun crowd never seems to take the cost into account when they're all: "ZOMG, you could buy a grenade launcher, and a mini gun, and 100's of rifles n'stuff!".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ScientificBob, posted 07-26-2012 8:32 AM ScientificBob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:31 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 44 by onifre, posted 07-26-2012 11:15 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 20 of 310 (668976)
07-26-2012 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:08 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
So... I can't recall your stance on Intelligent Design, but if you oppose it, can I assume that's because you fear it?
What other explanation is there but fear when someone opposed gun ownership even by people who are never once in their life going to point that weapon at another human being? What other explanation is there but fear when someone sees even locked, unloaded firearms as more dangerous than an automobile?
I'm willing to consider an alternate explanation for your viewpoint, but if the only thing you can say for your position is that you think these weapons present an unacceptable danger and you can't explain why, you're just proving my point that this is about gun-phobia, not an accurate risk assessment.
Like it or not, the vast majority of the civilised world looks at US attitudes towards guns and shakes it's head in disgust, whilst facepalming about how massacre after massacre just get ignored, forgotten.
They don't have the Second Amendment, or an especially murderous populace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:08 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:34 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 39 by onifre, posted 07-26-2012 11:05 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 21 of 310 (668977)
07-26-2012 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
07-26-2012 10:23 AM


Cost?
Catholic Scientist writes:
...but the anti-gun crowd never seems to take the cost into account when they're all: "ZOMG, you could buy a grenade launcher, and a mini gun, and 100's of rifles n'stuff!".
Like that makes any difference. I have a friend in Texas that has thousands of dollars worth of Lord of the Rings collectables. He could just as easily have invested that money in that other "hobby", merchant of death. In fact he could sell all that on ebay now and amass quite an arsenal in a matter of days. I'm hoping he doesn't, of course. It's sick to know, however, that you would wholeheartedly support his right to do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 10:23 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-26-2012 10:35 AM Briterican has replied
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 10:46 AM Briterican has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 22 of 310 (668978)
07-26-2012 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:28 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
crashfrog writes:
...if the only thing you can say for your position is that you think these weapons present an unacceptable danger and you can't explain why
Is it really necessary to say why? Common sense perhaps? But if that's not enough for you, or you lack the capacity for it, I'll provide here the same "why" that I provided in the other thread.
Map: Mass shootings in the US since 1990 - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
(please note, ABC is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, yet another country that is pretty astonished at US gun attitudes)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:28 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:46 AM Briterican has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 310 (668979)
07-26-2012 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:31 AM


Re: Cost?
I don't think you can sell firearms on eBay.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:31 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:39 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 24 of 310 (668980)
07-26-2012 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:08 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
So... I can't recall your stance on Intelligent Design, but if you oppose it, can I assume that's because you fear it?
No, because we could explain very clearly and specifically why ID is rejected. Its the people that waffle and hyperbolize and just can't seem to put their finger on why they oppose guns so much that we can conclude are rejecting them out of fear.
Like it or not, the vast majority of the civilised world looks at US attitudes towards guns and shakes it's head in disgust,
And they can kiss our red-white-n-blue asses!
'Murica!!!!
But seriously, I don't think our rights need to be adjusted for keeping citizens of other countries happy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:08 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:40 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 25 of 310 (668981)
07-26-2012 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
07-26-2012 10:35 AM


Re: Cost?
jar writes:
I don't think you can sell firearms on eBay and use that money to go buy arms.
Probably not, I didn't say you could. I said he could sell his Lord of the Rings crap on ebay.
Keep in mind however that apparently the CO shooter bought most of his ammo online.
Edited by Briterican, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-26-2012 10:35 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 07-26-2012 10:52 AM Briterican has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


(1)
Message 26 of 310 (668982)
07-26-2012 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by New Cat's Eye
07-26-2012 10:38 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
Catholic Scientist writes:
But seriously, I don't think our rights need to be adjusted for keeping citizens of other countries happy.
I agree with that statement, but would point out that it completely misses the point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 10:38 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 27 of 310 (668983)
07-26-2012 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Panda
07-26-2012 9:51 AM


Re: Inclusive
Look, right or wrong, the Constitution is the law. You can't just ignore it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Panda, posted 07-26-2012 9:51 AM Panda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:45 AM crashfrog has replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 28 of 310 (668984)
07-26-2012 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:41 AM


Re: Inclusive
crashfrog writes:
Look, right or wrong, the Constitution is the law. You can't just ignore it.
I agree. I can't argue with that. The Constitution does however have a history of modification. It's almost inevitable, assuming we end up with technology that would allow for handheld laser guns with the power to vaporise a person in one shot (that would be "arms" would it not? and thus you would have the right to own one, or twelve), that at SOME point, this particular part of the Constitution gets re-evaluated.
Nonetheless, valid point crash and I don't dispute it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:41 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 10:50 AM Briterican has not replied
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:52 AM Briterican has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 310 (668985)
07-26-2012 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:31 AM


Re: Cost?
Like that makes any difference.
The cost? Of course it does. Cost is the only thing prohibiting me from acquire the guns I'd love to have.
I have a friend in Texas that has thousands of dollars worth of Lord of the Rings collectables.
I have an uncle with tens of thousands of dollars worth of firearms, including fully automatic ones and ones with grenade launchers. And they're all legal - you've got to be in the right state and have the right permits (the only ammo for the grenade launcher he can get is flares) . And he's never shot anything that was alive. Doesn't hunt at all. All we've ever shot was paper, bowling pins, wood, fruit, and dirt.
It's sick to know, however, that you would wholeheartedly support his right to do so.
I'm willing to listen to your explanation for why he shouldn't?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:31 AM Briterican has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 310 (668986)
07-26-2012 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:34 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
Is it really necessary to say why?
Only if you want me to believe it's something other than fear.
yet another country that is pretty astonished at US gun attitudes
I see. So it's not only your fear of guns, it's your fear of embarassment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:34 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:52 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 83 by Jon, posted 07-26-2012 3:11 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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