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Author Topic:   Aurora Colorado Violence
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


(3)
Message 31 of 236 (668629)
07-23-2012 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by vimesey
07-22-2012 5:02 PM


Re: Death penalty
You have a very good and noble response. You should be cheered for your stance. I wish I could feel it in my heart to have that type of idealism. But, alas those qualities are far from me when confronted with the facts in this case. The man should be summarily executed.

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onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 32 of 236 (668631)
07-23-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Granny Magda
07-23-2012 10:30 AM


Re: Death penalty
That sounds like a good argument for life in prison.
I don't feel the specifics of this case should award him life of any kind.
Killing him only adds to the death toll.
Not really a problem for me.
And that's without even considering that he is likely insane. Are we really going to execute the mentally ill?
Well, anyone opening fire in a movie theater cannot be said to be menatlly well considering. The only reason I would not want to see him get the death penalty is if he was mentally incapable of knowing right from wrong.
Don't see that being the case in this one. But we'll wait and see.
Leave him in jail. With any luck, he might some day grow a conscience and realise the severity of what he's done.
Or just kill him and forget about it.
- Oni

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 33 of 236 (668632)
07-23-2012 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
07-22-2012 9:44 PM


Re: Death penalty
I think the fact that life imprisonment is cheaper than our execution process is a valid reason to do away with the death penalty even if there were not other moral and practical considerations.
Since when is money that important?

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 34 of 236 (668634)
07-23-2012 11:44 AM


(cough) gun control (cough)
I thought I'd just drop it in; you never know it may just be a minor contributing factor. Possibly.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 35 of 236 (668636)
07-23-2012 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
07-23-2012 11:41 AM


Re: Death penalty
HUH?
As I said the cost was just one factor but cost, particularly tax dollars, are a fact of life. The question to ask yourself is whether the extra cost of vengeance is where you really want to spend your money and if so, why?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 36 of 236 (668637)
07-23-2012 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
07-23-2012 11:47 AM


Re: Death penalty
e question to ask yourself is whether the extra cost of vengeance is where you really want to spend your money and if so, why?
It's any extra cost for punishment, not vengeance. Which it seems we can all agree he should be punished in some way, right?
- Oni

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onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 37 of 236 (668638)
07-23-2012 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tangle
07-23-2012 11:44 AM


(cough) gun control (cough)
I thought I'd just drop it in; you never know it may just be a minor contributing factor. Possibly.
All for talking about it. What do you got?
- Oni

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jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 38 of 236 (668639)
07-23-2012 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by onifre
07-23-2012 11:52 AM


Re: Death penalty
Punishment is not really an issue, both imprisonment and execution are punishment.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 39 of 236 (668641)
07-23-2012 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
07-23-2012 11:54 AM


Re: Death penalty
One form of punishment costs more than the other, which having searched it yesterday I found conflicting data on that. But let's just say it does to not drag this out. It has nothing to do with vengeance.
- Oni

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1547 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 40 of 236 (668655)
07-23-2012 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by onifre
07-23-2012 9:13 AM


Re: Death penalty
I don't buy that an experiment turned Kaczynski into a Unibomber.
I think it's pretty well settled, at this point. He'd never sent anybody bombs before, you know. And everybody's account has his mental decline from genius mathematician to reclusive bomber begin almost immediately after he was subject to an incredibly harsh CIA experiment.
It's not even a conspiracy theory, at this point; it's more or less settled history. People just prefer the "some guys are born bad" explanation.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 236 (668656)
07-23-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by onifre
07-22-2012 9:26 PM


Re: Death penalty
"Punishment" is a useless farce that just makes folks like you feel better about getting some good old fashioned vengeance.
I suppose it is a natural, biological trait.
I just read online that the prosecution is going to wait to see if they're going to pursue the death penalty until after speaking with the families of the victims. I think that's a good way to go about it; If the families of the victims think they'll feel better if this guy gets the death penalty, then that's reason enough for me.
So lock him away and pump him full of drugs so you won't live in a world where the death penalty exists?
I, personally, would rather be put to death than sit in a small room for 50+ years... well, I guess that depends on the drugs

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onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 42 of 236 (668659)
07-23-2012 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by crashfrog
07-23-2012 2:29 PM


Re: Death penalty
I think it's pretty well settled, at this point.
No it is not. Some media outlets ran with the story of his past and the experiemnts conducted at Harvard, but no authority on the matter has ever investigated or concluded such a thing.
Not the thread for it, so if you have evidence maybe post a link or start a thread.
- Oni

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onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 43 of 236 (668660)
07-23-2012 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by New Cat's Eye
07-23-2012 2:31 PM


Re: Death penalty
I just read online that the prosecution is going to wait to see if they're going to pursue the death penalty until after speaking with the families of the victims. I think that's a good way to go about it; If the families of the victims think they'll feel better if this guy gets the death penalty, then that's reason enough for me.
I read the same thing, and I agree. If the families want him dead then they should go for the death penalty.
And I get my bloodlust satisfied.
I, personally, would rather be put to death than sit in a small room for 50+ years... well, I guess that depends on the drugs.
I'd ask to be allowed to overdose on heroin.
- Oni

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vimesey
Member (Idle past 153 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 44 of 236 (668666)
07-23-2012 4:41 PM


Gun control question
I don't know whether the reports over here are accurate, but I understand that one of the weapons used was an AR-15 assault rifle.
We don't get a great deal of debate in the UK over the detail of gun control, but a member of the public legally being able to buy an assault rifle does raise the eyebrow quite high.
What rationale do the NRA and other opponents of gun control offer, in support of the public being able to buy assault rifles ? (As distinct from more general rationales, in relation to pistols/single shot rifles and firearms in a general sense).

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 45 of 236 (668667)
07-23-2012 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by vimesey
07-23-2012 4:41 PM


Re: Gun control question
I was going to regale you with my hazy memory of the various strangeness regarding assault weapons in the USA. Then I found that wiki had summed it for me - who needs a memory these days, eh?
quote:
There are no federal restrictions on the ownership of AR-15 rifles in the United States. During the period 1994—2004 variants with certain features such as collapsible stocks, flash suppressors, and bayonet lugs were prohibited for sales to civilians by the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, with the included Assault Weapons Ban. Included in this was a restriction on the pistol grip that protrudes beneath the stock, which was considered an accessory feature under the ban and was subject to restrictions. Some rifles were manufactured with a grip not described under the Ban installed in its place. Those AR-15s that were manufactured with those features were stamped, "Restricted Military/Government/Law Enforcement/Export Only" as well as the accompanying full capacity magazines. The restrictions only applied to guns manufactured after the ban took effect. It was legal to own, sell, or buy any gun built before 1994. Hundreds of thousands of pre-ban ARs were sold during the ban as well as new guns redesigned to be legal.
Since the expiration of the Federal AWB in September 2004,[21] these features became legal in most states.[22] Since the expiration of the ban the manufacture and sale of then-restricted rifles has resumed completely.
What rationale do the NRA and other opponents of gun control offer, in support of the public being able to buy assault rifles ?
I think, the argument goes, roughly, but they're not technically assault rifles (ie., they are only semi-automatic), in their own words:
quote:
The gun-banners did not use the term assault rifle in the proper technical sensethat is, an intermediate power combat rifle that has a selector switch so that the gun can fire either automatically or semi-automatically. Instead, the prohibitionists tricked legislatures into banning guns that could only fire as semi-autos, but which looked like selective-fire military rifles.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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