Supreme Court upholds Obamacare

You have presented this survey as relevant.

It is interesting, but not in the way you might think. Doctors want to protect their pay and are resistant to change. I can't say as I really blame them, but I really don't care either. We kinda need affordable healthcare. What good is a doctor if you can't see one outside of an emergency room?The whole point is to make healthcare affordable. Afterall, it is called the "Affordable Care Act". It isn't called "Let's Make Doctors Happy Act", or "Let's Make Doctors Rich Act".What we need are doctors who are interested in healing people, not doctors who are interested in buying boats. Other first world countries spend HALF as much as we do on healthcare, and they seem to have enough doctors to go around. What we need to do is make changes to the healthcare system that are beneficial to patients, not doctors. That is why their whining is irrelevant.

Thats a whole lot of questions, for someone who already made up their mind on this issue.. Can you explain why? Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

It's not their political views that make them unnecessary, it's the fact that we don't need them that makes them unnecessary.

I had some time to investigate your source a little bit more. It ain't pretty.

quote:

---

Nor is there much that is fair or scientific about the Fraser Institute’s research, despite the claim it is subject to a rigorous peer review process. Saskatoon health policy consultant Stephen Lewis brilliantly deconstructs the Grade 9 methodology behind the institute’s annual report on hospital wait times and exposes it as skewed estimates on a hot-button issue, retailed as hard data, and intended to lure Canadians to the promised land of private medicine.

​

Never mind the 16-per-cent response rate in 2011, which alone cashiers validity, Mr. Lewis writes of the Fraser Institute’s effort. Even more fundamentally, the questionnaire asks respondents for neither the sources of their estimates, nor whether they consult any real data to support their responses.

​

So, as Nova Scotia Finance Minister Graham Steele put it: The Fraser Institute produces junk. It is not a serious institution. It is a political organization

---

Source

quote:

---

There are those who say the organization's birth was not completely benign; they charge that Michael Walker, an economist from the University of Western Ontario, helped set up the institute after he received financial backing from forestry giant MacMillan-Bloedel, largely to counter B.C.'s NDP government. ...

​

In 1999, the Fraser Institute raised the ire of scientists and health professionals when it sponsored two conferences on the tobacco industry. They were titled "Junk Science, Junk Policy? Managing Risk and Regulation" and "Should government butt out? The pros and cons of tobacco regulation." The institute was accused of putting its credibility on the line by allying itself with the tobacco industry's efforts to undermine credible scientific research.

---

Sorry - we can't find that page

quote:

---

The Fraser Institute’s motto is: If it matters, measure it. Mark Twain had a different take: Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

​

It’s easy for statistics to become lies. A recent Fraser Institute mini study demonstrates how this can happen. This study was produced to contribute to the heated debate in the United States over Barack Obama’s proposal to bring in a publicly funded health-insurance option.

​

One argument used to support a public option is that it would reduce the large number of bankruptcies experienced by Americans who have inadequate insurance to pay for expensive medical procedures.

​

A 2007 national study by legal, medical, and sociological researchers found that medical expenses contributed to nearly two-thirds of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations, the study noted. Three quarters had medical insurance but had accumulated large medical debts, lost significant income due to illness, or mortgaged their homes to pay medical bills. Some lost coverage when they changed jobs.

​

An earlier study by the same authors noted that Canada’s universal health insurance resulted in lower bankruptcy rates.

​

Not so, claims Brett Skinner, the Fraser Institute’s director of bio-pharma and health-policy research, and senior policy analyst Mark Rovere. If the 2007 national study is correct, they argue, because of Canada’s single-payer system, we should expect to observe a lower rate of bankruptcy in Canada compared to the United States, all else being equal. Yet the most recent data shows that the non-business bankruptcy rate in Canada is statistically the same as it is in the United States.

​

But Skinner and Rovere don’t use the most recent data, which would undermine their case. They use data from 2006 and 2007 that shows bankruptcy rates being higher in Canada than in the U.S. In both years, the Canadian bankruptcy rate was 3.0 per thousand population. In the U.S., the rate was 2.0 per thousand in 2006 and 2.7 in 2007. Skinner and Rovere conclude that a publicly funded health-care system doesn’t lead to lower bankruptcy rates.

---

Fraser Institute spins bankruptcy facts - rabble.caSpin and propaganda. Karl Rove would be proud.Sources need to be vetted. Anyone can claim or say anything. If the source will not provide you with their methodology and sources for the data then their conclusions should be questioned. Thinking critically is a virtue.Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

There seems to be lots of evidence that the idea of Canadians flooding to the US for healthcare is a right wing myth. As of yet no one has presented any credible evidence that this argument has any weight.This myth is a central premise of the whole anti-PPACA movement. And like the majority of the arguments against the PPACA it is based upon lies and deceit.

quote:

---

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

---

Link
Coming to the US for services is a feature of Canadian healthcare not a flaw.

quote:

---

Cherkas is among an estimated 500,000 Americans treated abroad in 2006. As U.S. health care and insurance costs soar, more people are opting for medical and dental care in unfamiliar surroundings and thousands of miles from their families and doctors. "Medical tourism" has morphed in recent years from an obscure phenomenon into a global industry, fueled by the Internet, ease of travel, shorter wait times for appointments and greater international sharing of medical "best practices," says Karen H. Timmons, CEO of the Joint Commission International (JCI), the overseas arm of the nonprofit Joint Commission, which accredits U.S. health facilities.

​

Some U.S. companies and insurers, anxious to lower care costs, are driving the trend by urging employees to be treated in one of a growing number of countries that cater to foreign patients, among them India, Singapore, Hungary, South Africa, Dubai, Costa Rica and Brazil. Thailand remains a top destination, with Bumrungrad hospital alone treating 64,000 Americans last yearup 11 percent from 2005.

---

LinkOne hospital in Thailand sees more US citizens than all of the Canadians that supposedly leave the country(still waiting for a legitimate source) for medical care.Gee Sarah Palin used to go to Canada for healthcare. Classic right wing crap. Ok for me but not for thee.

quote:

---

The vocal opponent of health-care reform in the U.S. steered largely clear of the topic except to reveal a tidbit about her life growing up not far from Whitehorse.

​

"We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada," she said. "And I think now, isn't that ironic?"

---

LinkThe attack on PPACA by comparing it to the Canadian system is specious at best. Deceptive and lies in reality. The two systems are not alike at all.But when you actually examine the arguments against the Canadian system, the arguments tend to fall flat. They are usually based on distortions or out right lies. This is not to say the Canadian system is perfect. It has some deep seated nagging flaws. Even with its flaws the vast majority of Canadians want public healthcare and prefer their system over a US style system.

quote:

---

Canadians strongly support the health system's public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to make our public health care stronger."[7][8]

​

A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system for Canada[9] while a Strategic Counsel survey in 2008 found 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S.

---

LinkIf anyone wants to attack the PPACA then find a valid attack. The comparison to the Canadian system or pointing out flaws in the Canadian system are not valid points. If you feel you need to use the Canadian system then stay away from the whole "Canadians flocking to US" argument, because the hard evidence is not there and it forces a hard look at the US system that is not pretty at all.

It gets better. About That "83 Percent of Doctors Hate Obamacare So Much, They Might Quit" PollCS, I thought you knew better than to read Drudge.

Hey, it's not easy to find figures that support the preconceptions of conservatives. Sometimes the bottom of the barrel is the only place you can get 'em.