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Member (Idle past 4871 days) Posts: 624 From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What's the problem with teaching ID? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Regardless, it is implicit that ID must invoke the supernatural at some stage.
Really? Where?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Unless ID actually proposed a model to show the method the asserted designer uses to influence evolution, the answer is either magic or supernatural.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-titleAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Designing the initial genomes to bias evolution in planned trajectories is just such a way to influence the course of evolution (myself and others have discussed this before on this site, if you will recall).
And, when it comes to molecular machinery that may have been present in the LUCA, such as bacterial flagella, then all the nanotechnologists would simply have to engineer the flagellar parts in the genomes.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You have NEVER presented the model or method the asserted designer uses influence evolution.
Until you present that model, whether it is little tweezers or a John Deere front loader, you have presented nothing but word salad.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Just to make my position clear, by the way:
I don't advocate the teaching of ID in schools, in any way whatsoever. That'd be the wrong thing to do. But it's not because (a) ID invokes the supernatural (it doesn't), or (b) it's pseudoscience, etc. It's because ID is not sufficiently developed to be a rigorous hypothesis or theory. There are plenty of hypotheses out there that aren't nearly as rigorous as the modern evolutionary synthesis, and these shouldn't really be in the school room, and the same holds ID. It's silly to push for ID in schools when there are dozens of other equally rigorous hypotheses out there (not all in biology, of course). That's really why I'm in this forum: I'm trying to glean ideas from all of you to steadily develop the ID hypothesis.
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
You have NEVER presented the model or method the asserted designer uses influence evolution. It's called engineering a genome with biological parts that will later be used by future organisms, and evolutionary processes will build on these parts, shaping the course of evolution. There are other mechanisms here, too, like cytosine deamination, but I'll let that discussion wait for another day. Edited by Genomicus, : No reason given.
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
You have NEVER presented the model or method the asserted designer uses influence evolution. It's called engineering a genome with biological parts that will later be used by future organisms, and evolutionary processes will build on these parts, shaping the course of evolution. There are other mechanisms here, too, like cytosine deamination, but I'll let that discussion wait for another day.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The way to develop Intelligent Design is to bring the designer in so that the designer can demonstrate the model of how evolution is influenced.
It really is that simple.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Until you present the model showing the method and process the asserted designer uses you have nothing but word salad.
There is no ID model. Edited by jar, : appalin spallinAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
The way to develop Intelligent Design is to bring the designer in so that the designer can demonstrate the model of how evolution is influenced. Except that: a. I have already provided you with a mechanism to shape the course of evolution. b. What if the designer(s) is extinct? c. Where do you propose to search for this designer first? Mars? Or the Andromeda galaxy? Possibly, if we sent a man to the Pleiades we'd find the designer? Where in the galaxy do you think we should look for the designers first? I'm curious. d. We don't need to have the designer(s) present to infer intelligent design. Edited by Genomicus, : No reason given.
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Until you present the model showing the method and process the asserted designer uses you have nothing but word salad. Please see my response above, and respond specifically to the points I made. I mean, c'mon, you might want to try to discuss this without repeating the same thing over and over again, without considering exactly what I said.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The answer is still the same.
It really is that simple.
a. I have already provided you with a mechanism to shape the course of evolution. Bullshit. Totally false. You have NOT presented the method used to front load a genome. How was it done? What tools were used?
b. What if the designer(s) is extinct? Not my problem. You asserted there is a designer.
c. Where do you propose to search for this designer first? Mars? Or the Andromeda galaxy? Possibly, if we sent a man to the Pleiades we'd find the designer? Where in the galaxy do you think we should look for the designers first? I'm curious. NMP yet again.
d. We don't need to have the designer(s) present to infer intelligent design. You can infer any damn thing you want. Pink elephants with green stripes. Again, that's not my problem.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Sorry jar, but as usual your tone is aggressive and confrontational, and not really in the spirit of objective discussion, so I'll not discuss this with you. Take care!
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Genome engineering:
Genome editing - Wikipedia
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sorry you feel that way, but it really is that simple.
Until you can present and defend the model and method, the mechanics, Inept Design will remain just a joke. There is no ID model.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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