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Author Topic:   Heaven and sin
dwise1
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Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 18 of 28 (660062)
04-20-2012 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
04-20-2012 2:27 PM


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
In its first few centuries, Christianity diversified into several different competing theologies. Some were trinitarian, which several were not. The non-trinitarian theologies, while not being the same, were and have been grouped together under the label "Arian", after Arius of Alexandria. Going into the First Council of Nicea, called by Emperor Constantine, the "Arian Controversy" was the major issue facing the newly official state religion. Arianism was declared to be heterodox (one step away from heresy, as I understand) and Trinitarianism part of the One True Universal Faith. The article quotes this edict by Constantine:
quote:
In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offence, he shall be submitted for capital punishment.....
Several Germanic tribes had been converted to Christianity by Arian missionaries, so they remained Arians (not to be confused with 20th century Aryanism) until that belief was crushed by the 8th century through a series of military and political conquests.
Unitarianism as it formed independently in Transylvania and England (and from England to the Colonies) traces its roots back to Arianism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 04-20-2012 2:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 04-20-2012 3:00 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 20 of 28 (660085)
04-20-2012 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
04-20-2012 3:00 PM


But it was not Constantine that made those decisions but rather the Bishops that gathered in that council.
No, Constantine did not have a vote. Neither did the Soviet Union's Politburo have a vote in the Supreme Soviet, the governing body that actually passed the laws. And yet, all the Supreme Soviet did was to rubber-stamp the decisions already reached by the Politburo (though Wikipedia notes that starting in the 1950's the Supreme Soviet started to slowly accrue some real power for itself).
Constantine called for the Council, convened the Council, and attended the Council, obviously with the soldiers who formed the Pretorian Guard. He had an agenda in the proceedings and it strains credulity that his presence and his armed guards' presence did not unduly influence the bishops' votes.
We would need to consult historical records to piece together what had actually happened. But the fact still stands that going into the First Council both trinitarianism and non-trinitarianism were sizable factions and the Council did indeed decide for trinitarianism. I do believe that this is what Greatest Am I was referring to, which is the reason for my reply to you.
In addition, Christianity has never been monolithic. There have always been schisms and sects.
Yes, indeed. And that and more had already been happening long before going into the ecumenical councils. What the councils sought to do was to unify all those separate sects into one monolithic church (one article cites this as Constantine's primary agenda). And, of course, the splintering started anew almost immediately.

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 Message 19 by jar, posted 04-20-2012 3:00 PM jar has replied

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 Message 21 by jar, posted 04-20-2012 7:55 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 22 of 28 (660103)
04-20-2012 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
04-20-2012 7:55 PM


Re: Love to discuss this in depth.
That would require someone with more knowledge of the history and much more patience with theological and philosophical ... chatter than I have.
But still, the facts (no innuendo) are that there were competing non-trinitarian theologies (AKA "Arianism"), the First Council of Nicea is where they voted for trinitarianism and against Arianism, and Constantine was involved. It's everything else that would need to be hashed out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 04-20-2012 7:55 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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