The "Circle of the Earth"

Hi Mike, long time no posts.Believe what you will. I also noticed the devil said 'If you' are the son of God. The story was about temptation, and placing the seeds of doubt. If you believe the writer thought the earth was flat, that's up to you.

MikeIt would seem to me that the heighest point in a given large area[say, 50 miles to the horizon] the land a person lives in does indeed appear to be a circle.I can state quite confidently since I have climbed many mountains where this is the view from the peak. It is easy to imagine from the top of a mountain that you are looking at a great circle.The view from space[which is where Isaiah would have to be to view the earth]it is obviously three dimensional and you would have to be quite dull to miss the earth moving below.

Hi Sidelined,
Believe wht you will

Actually, Mike, at the time the Gospels were written the earth was known to be a sphere. However, the Americas (and Antarctica) had not yet been discovered. So it was believed that all the continents (Europe, what was know of Asia and Africa) were believed to be in one hemisphere, while the other hemisphere was all ocean.So, the Bible actually teaches us that the Americas don't exist. (No wonder my feet are wet all the time....)

If you believe that, you will.'So, the Bible actually teaches us that the Americas don't exist.''In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth'. That includes everything on the earth. The devil showing Jesus the kingdoms of the earth from a mountain is probably a vision of the kingdoms, as you cannot see kingdoms from a mountain. But I understand if you don't believe this, as I understand if you don't believe the circle, or the rest of the book - your choice.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-10-2003]

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If you believe that, you will.

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I prefer to believe that this, too, is a metaphor and should not meant to be taken literally. (But then I don't believe in the literal existence of Satan, and I only grudgingly concede that Jesus himself may have existed, although what he taught, if he did exist, is currently unknowable to any real certainty).

To educated Greeks, I would imagine, but I don't know about a bunch of folks off in the wilds of Asia Minor. I have no idea where to even look for any real scholarship on exactly who found out abour sphericity when, or where. And I'm quite certain that the OT writers thought it flat, just based on the quotes I posted above.
And the whole lot *knew* that Earth was immovable.

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To educated Greeks, I would imagine, but I don't know about a bunch of folks off in the wilds of Asia Minor.

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But the writers of the Gospels, I believe, were educated types who would have been exposed to the Greek culture, that being the standard of education at that time. In other words, I think that most well-educated folks were, in some sense "Greek". Certainly, I think, "Luke" was, as was "Paul" (although "Paul" didn't actually write a Gospel). But I'm no scholar in this, and to be honest I've only read a pitifully poor number of books on the subject.

There is an unsettling quality to remarks such as this. The condescending steriotype of the philosophical Greco-Roman counterposed to the brutal and primitive Semite seems little better than mild bigotry. This seems particularly ironic in light of the following:

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There is good evidence for the transmission of 'Babylonian Wissenschaft' through the medium of Aramaic. The introduction of this new scientific knowledge into Judah marked an intellectual revolution comparable in many ways to that which had taken place a little earlier in Greek-speaking Ionia, possibly (as we are beginning to appreciate from the works of Martin West and Walter Burkert) under the same oriental influence.

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- from The Bible as Book - The Hebrew Bible and the Judaean Desert Discoveries

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CA, that's why I said "I don't know...." Those poor guys didn't have Fox News, ya' know. And I'm aware that the people Paul, et al., were trying to convert were more Greek than Semitic, too - I just have no real knowledge of how well they, or for that matter Caesar Augustus, were educated in astronomy or physical geography.[This message has been edited by Coragyps, 11-10-2003]

I wasn't addressing what you think you know or don't know, I was addressing your stereotypic counterposition of "educated Greeks" and "a bunch of folks off in the wilds of Asia Minor".[This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 11-11-2003]

HI Mike, Every believer will agree yes, because to disagree would be to admit that the Bible is in error.However, there is a way to harmonise a circle and a flat earth. The Hebrew cosmology suggests that the sky is a metal dome over a flat earth, the 'circle' would be a reference to the dome complete with little windows that God opens for the rain and snow to fall out of. Brian.

Hi MiketheWizz, I think you miss the point. The Bible is divinely inspired. It is God that believes that the Earth is flat! I guess He is entitled to believe what He likes, too.
Mike.

Yes, Sidelined, from a high mountain the land around you might appear to be circular. But that is not the point. It is not possible to see ALL nations from any mountain peak, no matter how high, because of the Earth's curvature. So the scenario described in the gospel is an impossibility based on ignorance about the shape of the Earth.
Mike.

MikeThat is why I said the view from space is required. All the nations of Earth are visible over an extended time there,however,the obvious sphericity of the Earth would be apparent if that were the case.And what a poor acounting of a trip high enough above the planet to view the Earth.How Isaiah did not find it in his nature to write volumes on the experience is beyond me.
Oh dear, do you suppose it really didn't happen?------------------
"Nature uses only the longest threads to weave her patterns, so that each small piece of her fabric reveals the organization of the entire tapestry."