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Author Topic:   What Genesis Two Says
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 51 (655642)
03-12-2012 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
03-12-2012 9:41 AM


Topic
Where does it say that Genesis 2 is not sequential?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 9:41 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 1:32 PM jar has replied
 Message 4 by NoNukes, posted 03-12-2012 1:52 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 51 (655673)
03-12-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
03-12-2012 1:32 PM


Re: Topic
AI have read it and will even post it for you to read.
quote:
Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
Adam and Eve
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the groundtrees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.
18 The LORD God said, It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
Order and sequence.
There are no plants because there is no rain and no gardener.
Streams water the earth.
God creates man from dust.
Plants grow.
Animals are created.
Woman is created by cloning.
That is the order and sequence of events in Genesis 2.
Nothing there about earth being cursed.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 1:32 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 10-22-2012 1:43 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 51 (655700)
03-12-2012 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by PaulK
03-12-2012 6:08 PM


On the KJV
Somewhat off topic but it's important to remember that there were three major driving forces for the KJV, that it would be politically correct, not too offensive to the Roman Catholics and that it affirm the Divine Right of Kings.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2012 6:08 PM PaulK has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 51 (655704)
03-12-2012 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
03-12-2012 6:48 PM


Re: Sequential/Non-sequential
The Genesis 1 story has absolutely nothing to do with the Genesis 2 story and was actually written much latter in an entirely different context and theology.
The issue is "What does Genesis 2 say?"
There are no days in the Genesis 2 story.
Genesis 2 is NOT about the sacred week.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 6:48 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 51 (655709)
03-12-2012 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Buzsaw
03-12-2012 7:46 PM


Re: Translations, Etc
So here is the ASV version of Genesis 2.
quote:
Genesis 2
1 And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.
5 And no plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for Jehovah God had not caused it to rain upon the earth: and there was not a man to till the ground;
6 but there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pishon: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 and the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Cush.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth in front of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And Jehovah God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them: and whatsoever the man called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And the man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the heavens, and to every beast of the field; but for man there was not found a help meet for him.
21 And Jehovah God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof:
22 and the rib, which Jehovah God had taken from the man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And the man said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Still sequential, step by step, the god character creates man, then plants, then animals then woman.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 7:46 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 10:50 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 51 (655743)
03-13-2012 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
03-12-2012 10:50 PM


Re: Translations, Etc
I posted all of Genesis 2 from the version of the Bible you claim to have read, and it is filled with sequential events; the god character does this and then the god character does that.
Remember, the story found in Genesis 2 was written hundreds, maybe even thousands of years before the story found in Genesis 1.
And yes, the two stories do contradict each other; they describe two different gods, different orders of creation, different methods of creation; the two stories even have entirely different purposes and creation is nothing but a plot device in either of them.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 03-12-2012 10:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 32 of 51 (655752)
03-13-2012 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Blue Jay
03-13-2012 10:05 AM


the Bible and politics
Bibles have always been tools of politics, particularly the KJV, but the most recent and blatant example is The Conservative Bible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Blue Jay, posted 03-13-2012 10:05 AM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 51 (676398)
10-22-2012 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
10-22-2012 1:43 PM


Re: Questions
Phat writes:
I have a few questions.
1) As for God resting after doing lots of work....why would a Creator of all seen and unseen even get tired? Or am I not correctly understanding the context and meaning of the word, "rest"? Evidently its a special day, because God blessed it. (the seventh day)
And do we know whether these so called days were 24 hour ones? Thousand year ones? Or perhaps .00001314 ones?
God resting and the days is NOT in Genesis 2 and is totally irrelevant to the topic.
Phat writes:
2)
quote:
Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground
I suppose I can believe that God created rain as well as migrant laborers. But whoever is narrating this passage, how the heck do they know what reasons God has for doing these alleged things? Ive no argument that God does things...though I do question the author of this scripture and his/her relationship with God.
The author(s) of the story tell us the reasons the god character is doing stuff. The author has no relationship with the god character other than being the creator of the god character.
Phat writes:
3)
quote:
9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the groundtrees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Do trees grow in a different method today then they did back then? Why didnt those two particular trees have any seed bearing offspring? And what type of fruit was on them? Apples? Oranges?
The fruit was "Knowledge of right and wrong" and "Everlasting life".
Phat writes:
4)
jar writes:
Order and sequence.
There are no plants because there is no rain and no gardener.
Streams water the earth.
God creates man from dust.
Plants grow.
Animals are created.
Woman is created by cloning.
That is the order and sequence of events in Genesis 2.
Nothing there about earth being cursed.
Good point, but perhaps a better question is this: In our daily personal observation of other humans, do we see any evidence that some people are cursed and others are blessed? Or am I stepping out of line with the topic?
But that is an irrelevant point and has nothing to do with the topic or Genesis 2 or 3.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 10-22-2012 1:43 PM Phat has not replied

  
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