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Author Topic:   People, please read this... (re: Same sex mariage)
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 234 (64874)
11-07-2003 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Silent H
11-05-2003 12:40 PM


????? You have been given evidence of this by more than me Zealot.
You referred to Blatant Latin homophobic mistranslations. I found none such. I referred to both the Masoretic and Septuagint to review the translations. They confirmed my beliefs.
Only difference was that you then chose to deny 'man lies with mankind' was a direct homosexual reference. Instead the argument was 'there was no such thing as homosexuality back then'.
Evidence you call it ?
Lev 18-20 was specifically addressed to the people, not priests, yet you insists it wasn't.
What is the point af discussing it with you ?
You aren't talking about me. I have not posted anything from another forum, particularly to belittle Xtians. Or are you saying this is what I must do in order to get you to respond?
See the thread starter.
I'm debating with you Zealot, not them, and you are the one leaving now that your argument is crumbling before you (with the expressed intention of finding a like minded audience), not me.
How many Christians on this site ? You'd think if I wanted to find a like minded audience I would go somewhere else huh ? Instead I argue against a lesbian , a bisexual and whatever Rrhain is.
PS: When someone chooses to question even the most elementary facts , there is little point in continuing a discussion.
No, what I did not have was YOUR understanding of Lev. This is the point of having a debate.
Try the Christian understanding of Lev.
I have been willing to accept that the specific Biblical condemnation of homosexuality in English texts was legit. I am still willing to accept that outcome. Show me the evidence and logic, but don't expect me to just swallow whatever you are shovelling.
I see no difference between the English translation of the Maseritic text and the English KJV or the English translation of the Septuagint.
They all say the same thing.
1) Judge not, less ye be judged.
This shows to me you haven't the first clue of Christianity.
My choice? Great. Then you will start presenting evidence to support your 2part Lev interpretation. This includes evidence to rebut the problems I have pointed out.
I've provided those already. Your choice was blatant denial.
Shall, I'll spend yet another 2 hours wasting my time, trying to help you come to an understanding, when you will question even the most simplistic verses ?
Or shall I just copy and paste a selection of quotes from you on this site in an attempt to view your bias ?
Shall we try the latter ?
"Historically some of the worst diseases in Western history (the major plagues) were exacerbated by Xtian ignorance regarding disease and how to treat it, thus hitting them much harder than they had to."
"The deal is that our (by which I mean the western world's) current calender/dating system is based on Xtian mythology and while not intolerable to continue using, does seem somewhat clunky and pointless."
"I do not view the Bible as the work of God. I view the Bible as the work of men. Much more than that, it seems that the disjointed and inconsistent passages are actually cobbled together "fables" and "myths" from earlier sources."
"Become rambling? The Bible IS rambling. It looks suspiciously like other pieces of literature that are accumulations of many previous works patched together to look as if it is one story."
**
If you see the Bible as 'disjointed and inconsistent passages' why do you even waste people's time trying to discuss it ?
Just forget about it, move on with your life and accept that other people might not have difficulty understanding it, thus they might have different opinions.
However, trying to convince me that you're actually interested in coming to a truth regarding the text is futile. I see no point in wasting anymore time discussing Biblical text with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Silent H, posted 11-05-2003 12:40 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Silent H, posted 11-07-2003 2:09 PM Zealot has replied
 Message 226 by Silent H, posted 11-08-2003 11:02 AM Zealot has not replied

Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 227 of 234 (65310)
11-09-2003 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Silent H
11-07-2003 2:09 PM


Chapters after 20 were addressed solely to priests which is in direct conflict with your 2 part Lev interpretation.
Do you actually think that no-one checks up what you post ?
Indeed of chapters 21-27, only 2 refer to priests. Where do you pull this from ?
Perhaps you need to read the history of your Bible. It was not written by one hand, it IS made up of diverse writings that were brought together into a single volume (and there are other texts which could have been in there) when a Roman Emperor paid for 50 "final" copies, so a "final" copy was created.
Haha. The Bible expert. After all your previous posts, do you really think I'll be surprised at any of your assumptions favour an inaccurate / roman 'infested', mythical based bible
Without question the New Testament is from diverse writers with sometimes conflicting versions of the same event. It was noted in Rome at the time that some were directly taken from other religions at the time and patched in to make a cohesive story.
Even dawn on you that failing religions would have to incorporate Biblical stories to maintain their following ... I guess not
For someone that believes the Bible as trash, you sure spend alot of time reading up on it. Unfortunitely with your previous post , you demonstrated you just dont understand it. Make no mistake, you never will understand it, unless you ask God to explain it to you.
Because it is important to most of recent Western History and Culture. Why study any other culture's writings or artifacts... like Mayans and Persians and ancient Chinese?
Because I am curious?
Shall we hit close to home ? Proving the Bible wrong is the single most important thing to you. You know that should the Bible be true, you would indeed be considered a grave sinner. Called opportunity cost. Is it worth it to sacrifise your current lifestyle for a possibility of an afterlife in Heaven, or is your current lifestyle too important to you ?
Your bias and Christian phobia is very apparent. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Silent H, posted 11-07-2003 2:09 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by NosyNed, posted 11-09-2003 11:32 AM Zealot has not replied
 Message 229 by Silent H, posted 11-09-2003 12:47 PM Zealot has replied

Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 234 (65466)
11-09-2003 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Silent H
11-09-2003 12:47 PM


What I said is that "Chapters after 20 were addressed solely to priests". I did not say "All chapters" or "The majority of chapters". I did not have to quantify this at all to make my point, so I did not. And since there was more than one chapter, I used the word "Chapters". Its really that simple.
So how do you reconcile this issue?
Be clear about your statements. Indeed make a point of noting that only 2 chapters are addressed to priests. They are indeed addressed to priests not regarding ritual sacrifise.
They are laws for priests. Try read them.
PS Chapter 21 ends with
24 And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.
Interesting.
While these leaders were deliberating a Roman emperor (Xtian by the way) wanted to have some official copies. I am not suggesting it was money that motivated their decisions to finalize or what to include in the final copy. But what they had was an important motive for speeding up their deliberations... they would not only have a final copy (which is what they wanted anyway), but it would be in the hands of the emperor of Rome, which would lend great weight to their religion (and its spread throughout Rome).
Think perhaps God could have lead the mans decisions via the Holy Spirit ? Afterall he was a man of faith
Dionysus, Bacchus, Mithra etc etc... existed LOOOOOOOONG before Xtianity. I would hasten to add that they were not failing in their time either. If anything it is pretty suggestive that elements of these popular religions were added to spice up the emerging Xtian religion (kind of like how Catholicism adopted saints and pagan holidays).
And ? What is the historical accuracy of texts regarding these God's/Myths ? You accept their accuracy pretty quickly, but do you not assume they could have been edited to fit in with Christianity or dare I say, insinuate the religion was based on Pagan religions ?
PS.. I know what you will believe.
Just for interest sakes. If I write a book in 2003 about a Pagan religion about a man called Masus, which escaped from Egypt in 3000 BC, does also mean Christianity is crock ? I suggest you treat those fables with the same degree of criticism you regard the Bible with..
My opinion is that, whether Christ was really the "son of God" or not, the writers of the New Testament threw in local legends (maybe even believing them to be true). We have seen this happen with Catholicism, why could it not happen back then?
Read the opinions of famous Biblical Scholars and critics. I'll give you some if you really want.
While I never felt the faith, I did not finally come to the position I hold now until after my time at that religious school.
This why you hate Christianity ? Bad experience ?
It may very well be that it is my lack of faith, which does not allow me to see the "true word". But I certainly managed to get good marks from all the clergy I dealt with, regarding scripture.
Without God you will not understand it. Like a 3d poster. You have to learn to squint properly before it makes sense. Sorry, but it works like that.
Actually it is improving my knowledge and removing ignorance which is the single most important thing to me.
Nope. Go back and find out why you hate Christianity. I'm sure you already know why. You need to clear your mind before you can rid yourself of bias.
Can we return to the points at hand?
Haha, last you posted you agreed that the act of homosexual sex was sinfull, but that the bible mentioned nothing about the actuall lifestyle of homosexuality as being a sin.
If you need me to explain to you why God cant bless a union based on a sinfull sex act, then you need to spend more time analysing the Bible. It will come to you eventually.
Oh yeah, try reading Matthew also. Jesus mentions something about divorce and the Law, and how in the begining man was made for woman.
PS: Regarding 'Judge not... etc' , I suggest you read 1 Corinthians again. These biblical paradoxes have a way of becoming clear the more you read and *pray* (sorry .. to see that 3D puzzle, you need to cross your eyes.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Silent H, posted 11-09-2003 12:47 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2003 8:11 PM Zealot has not replied
 Message 232 by Silent H, posted 11-09-2003 10:36 PM Zealot has not replied

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