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Author Topic:   Replacing Consumerism
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 76 of 89 (653909)
02-25-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
02-25-2012 11:58 AM


Re: Where do we Take it from Here?
We Americans need to negotiate from a position of strength while we still have an advantage. Our global advantage is shrinking, and if we dont negotiate a settlement now, the world will simply pass us by. Thailand can be helped. Tourism is one of their main industries, but if we dont have the money to travel, it will hurt them. Americans are slipping, and there could come a day when the world wont need us.
The only problem with my solution is, ironically, that it depends on continued consumerism.
Jon, in message #1 writes:
Accordingly, I don't think there is any realistic solution to the problems our economy is facing that don't involve some how lessening and, perhaps getting rid of, consumerism.
The problem: I cannot also think of a quick way to do this that won't have horrible economic consequences as bad as the problems that we'd face were we to transition away from consumerism more slowly (thus allowing it to wreak further havoc on our welfare).
And yes, I am suggesting we negotiate with the world while we still have leverage. Otherwise, jar...our wealthier citizens will simply leave...(1% leave 99% holding the bag)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 02-25-2012 11:58 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 02-25-2012 12:10 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 77 of 89 (653912)
02-25-2012 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Phat
02-25-2012 12:05 PM


Re: Where do we Take it from Here?
What advantage does the US have?
Negotiation is a two way endeavor; what do we offer the other parties?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 12:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 12:15 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 78 of 89 (653913)
02-25-2012 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
02-25-2012 12:10 PM


Re: Where do we Take it from Here?
well...we still have the military umbrella

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 02-25-2012 12:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by jar, posted 02-25-2012 12:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 80 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 1:58 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 79 of 89 (653914)
02-25-2012 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
02-25-2012 12:15 PM


Re: Where do we Take it from Here?
And that is useful in negotiating how exactly?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 12:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 89 (653922)
02-25-2012 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
02-25-2012 12:15 PM


Phat's Solution
Phat's solution:
Babies deformed from prenatal Agent Orange exposure
I'm sure Jesus will approve.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 12:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:04 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 81 of 89 (653924)
02-25-2012 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Jon
02-25-2012 1:58 PM


Re: Phat's Solution
hey, the topic is about reducing consumerism...not stepping aside and letting Thailand and every other third world country become consumers also...and while we struggle to pay our debts, they move ahead of us and the world passes us by, as if we were some simpleton country like Britain became....
IF the world sticks us with the bill right when im about to retire, I will of course be mad and will become an AARP militant, voting down everything the blasted younguns try and pull to help them raise babies while Grandpa starves to death.
But im not Hitler. Im simply one of many aging US middle class who will try everything short of war to retire with grace and dignity after a lifetime of work. These other countries cant do what we did. We already used up most of the resources and if they try and copy our pattern, the planet itself will be in danger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 1:58 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 2:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 89 (653928)
02-25-2012 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Phat
02-25-2012 2:04 PM


Re: Phat's Solution
hey, the topic is about reducing consumerism...not stepping aside and letting Thailand and every other third world country become consumers also.
I see. Bombs away is your fix for consumerism. In that case, we better start implementation in the places where consumerism is most rampant. We'll point the first ones at your house.
Im simply one of many aging US middle class who will try everything short of war to retire with grace and dignity after a lifetime of work.
Short of war, but apparently not short of military use. Funny thing is: people being bombed and shot at can't tell the difference, nor do they much care.
These other countries cant do what we did. We already used up most of the resources and if they try and copy our pattern, the planet itself will be in danger.
The planet is already in danger. It's time for everyone to cut back.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:16 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 83 of 89 (653930)
02-25-2012 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Jon
02-25-2012 2:12 PM


Consume less but let everyone work together
Jon writes:
It's time for everyone to cut back.
Yes, but all im saying is that cutting back does not mean accepting being poor.
We need to work with the other countries rather than compete with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 2:12 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 2:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 89 (653932)
02-25-2012 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
02-25-2012 2:16 PM


Re: Consume less but let everyone work together
We need to work with the other countries rather than compete with them.
So what might be some of the things we can all do together?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:23 PM Jon has replied
 Message 88 by Omnivorous, posted 02-25-2012 3:33 PM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 85 of 89 (653933)
02-25-2012 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Jon
02-25-2012 2:19 PM


Re: Consume less but let everyone work together
Jon writes:
So what might be some of the things we can all do together?
Invite their doctors over here to teach us how to have cheaper health care. Since they wont demand $300,000 a year salaries nor will the medical bills be as high. In other words, we need educated immigrants to serve our aging population. It will be win/win. We will pay them, they will have plenty of work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 2:19 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 2:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 87 by jar, posted 02-25-2012 2:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 89 (653935)
02-25-2012 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
02-25-2012 2:23 PM


Re: Consume less but let everyone work together
In other words, we need educated immigrants to serve our aging population.
Make them our servants? That's your solution?
How is that working together? That's just more of the U.S. raping the third world.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 87 of 89 (653938)
02-25-2012 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
02-25-2012 2:23 PM


Re: Consume less but let everyone work together
Invite their grocery store checkers over here to teach us how to have cheaper supermarkets. Since they wont demand $18.00 an hour salaries nor will the shopping bills be as high. In other words, we need educated immigrants to serve our aging population. It will be win/win. We will pay them, they will have plenty of work.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 02-25-2012 2:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Omnivorous, posted 02-25-2012 3:36 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 88 of 89 (653952)
02-25-2012 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Jon
02-25-2012 2:19 PM


Re: Consume less but let everyone work together
Jon writes:
So what might be some of the things we can all do together?
We could arm a Arab World Expeditionary (AWE) Shock Force to topple Assad.
Our arms factories could add shifts: we and they would enjoy greater employment.
It's an established model--worked great for the Roman Empire and in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 2:19 PM Jon has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 89 of 89 (653953)
02-25-2012 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
02-25-2012 2:34 PM


Re: Consume less but let everyone work together
jar writes:
In other words, we need educated immigrants to serve our aging population. It will be win/win. We will pay them, they will have plenty of work.
And we'd rescue Social Security and Medicare (and our younger workers) from our temporary demographic bottleneck.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 02-25-2012 2:34 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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