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Author Topic:   SOPA/PIPA and 'Intellectual Property'
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 269 of 303 (652384)
02-13-2012 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 2:16 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Making it work is the hard part. Why shouldn't that be where the rewards, if any, lie?
I agree that rewards should lie with the person who does the work. The problem is that work often equates to money (or is dependant on it) and without copyright, the rich and the well-funded would have a huge advantage. This would tend to concentrate power and wealth in a few hands, making it progressively harder and harder for anyone else to create anything. This would lead to a stifling of innovation; what is my motivation for developing a game, or coming up with a concept (which is a bit of work) if that effort will not be rewarded, if it will, in fact, only serve to make Activision richer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 2:16 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:12 PM Perdition has replied
 Message 272 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:16 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 278 of 303 (652404)
02-13-2012 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Huntard
02-13-2012 4:12 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Uhm, isn't this the case now, with copyright intact?
Well, theoretically, I could sell my copyright to Activision and still get paid for my contribution.
But yeah, in general, which is why I'm in favor of copyright revision, but in no way am I in favor of copyright removal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:12 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:49 PM Perdition has replied
 Message 281 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:50 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 282 of 303 (652408)
02-13-2012 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 4:16 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Surely you realize how absurd that is? The world where you can't make something at all because somebody else says they had the idea first and now they've legally enjoined anybody else from producing a competing product - even if they never actually release their own - is the world where it's harder and harder for anyone to create something.
Yes, both extremes are bad. Perpetual copyright is bad, removal of copyright is bad. I advocate for a revision of copyright.
Your motivation is that it's your idea and if you don't do the work, nobody else will and your idea will never come to fruition.
But why would I want to do any work, when the end result is that some other company will take what I've invested time and money into, make it faster and cheaper, because they already have all the work I did, take credit for it, make a profit, and leave me poorer and weaker than had I never even started? Yeah, I may be able to go buy the game and play it and see the world I created brought to life, but that's a bit bittersweet, isn't it?
It makes zero sense to say that you have less motivation in a world where you're free to make whatever you can imagine
provided you have the money and resources to do so
than you do in our world, where you can bust your ass to make something truly original, and then Activision comes in, asserts a spurious patent claim on your work that you're too poor to answer in court, and takes your profits (and control of your creation) right out of your hands.
But at least your idea will come to fruition...and isn't that your motivation?
Copyright is what stifles innovation, by taking away people's control over their own culture and ideas. To assert that the lack of copyright "stifles innovation" is both nonsensical and ahistorical, in that it overlooks how the world's most enduring artistic achievements occurred in societies that gave approximately zero copyright protection to anybody.
Perpetual copyright does. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why can't we just reform copyright law, rather than deciding that we'd rather have no copyright law at all, making it nearly impossible for the low-funded, unknown artist to make a living off their effort?

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 Message 272 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:16 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 283 of 303 (652409)
02-13-2012 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Huntard
02-13-2012 4:49 PM


Re: Another interesting example
And you could set up a donation system and still get paid for your contribution.
Cool. Cuz as it stands, I do have a pretty cool idea for an MMORPG. Wanna send me some money to get it started?
I can't say much, I don't want Activision to steal it, but trust me, it's pretty awesome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:49 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 5:00 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 284 of 303 (652411)
02-13-2012 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 4:50 PM


Re: Another interesting example
But, look, if you're willing to blab it, I don't see why you should get paid at all. You shouldn't be able to control an idea like that, and our society is measurably worse off because of the mistaken notion that you can.
That's my point, I don't want to blab it, but then what makes a prospective investor want to send me money?

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 Message 281 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:50 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 295 of 303 (652534)
02-14-2012 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Huntard
02-13-2012 5:00 PM


Re: Another interesting example
No, sorry, don't fancy another MMO. However, make it a single player RPG and I might be tempted. What's the budget you're aiming for?
Single player RPG might be possible for the idea I have, but I really think it lends itself better the a multi-player platform.
As for a budget, I'm not sure. I'd need to hire a team of programmers (I'm not one myself), probably a couple more people to work with me on hashing out storylines and designs. It would need test space, so servers, electricity, rent on an office...we'd probably need a lot of money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 5:00 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Huntard, posted 02-14-2012 3:40 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 298 of 303 (652570)
02-14-2012 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Huntard
02-14-2012 3:40 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Then I'm sorry, but I won't be investing in your project. Good luck with finding other people to fund it.
Thanks, but I'm pretty sure that is the response I'll get from just about everyone.
Though, might I suggest a bit more solid of a proposal, like Tim Schafer did on the website I linked to earlier (you know, what is the amount you're aiming for, what you will do with any excess money etc.).
I can certainly say what I would do with excess money, but as for trying to aim at a dollar amount, I have no idea where to even start to find that. See, Tim Schafer has done this before, he knows what it takes and can ball park a number based on his experiences.
Most people who don't have this experience are basically going to be saying, "I'm aiming for as much as I can get." Since I'm not a coder, I don't even know how extensive the coding will need to be to bring my idea to fruition, which means I don't know how many programmers I'll need, nor how many computers/servers I'll need.
That's the issue I'm trying to illustrate, in order to create the type of proposal that would get a lot of people (or a few wealthy people) to invest in the the idea, I would need to already have experience doing this sort of thing - experience I can't get without funding, and around and around we go.

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3269 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(2)
Message 301 of 303 (652578)
02-14-2012 5:35 PM


In Summary
The current system of perpetual copyrights is broken. It stifles creativity and ingenuity. The current system of silly copyrights, copyrighting a concept or a vague process, is broken. It stifles creativity and ingenuity.
Total lack of copyright is a terrible option. It would tend to keep an unknown artist out of the market by allowing a larger, more well-funded company to sweep in, copy the work, distribute it farther with more advertising, and profit from the work of another. It would stifle creativity and ingenuity.
The solution: reform copyright laws such that they expire after a reasonable amount of time. This lets the person or people who do the work profit from it. It gives people an incentive to create, and a reasonable expectation that should their idea prove profitable, they will see some of that profit.

  
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