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Author | Topic: Is America a Christian Nation? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4483 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
Puritan was just a word to include bible believing Christians. today the word is Evangelical. you have no clue who the Puritans were. I would guess that you aren't even Christian, with a statement like that.
No one ever or ever will add anything or do anything to change the essence of America as a English Puritan Protestant nation. ever heard of this? Maryland Toleration Act - Wikipedia except in the mid 17th century, lol. ever heard of the 1st amendment?
America is the most moral and intelligent people in human history because of the Evangelical motivation save God's blessing. LOL take your Ridallin man.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1510 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Your substance to insult ratio overall has got to be around 1 to 10. And what little substance you do offer has little if anything to do with the main topic of this forum. Do you really get that big a kick out of tossing puerile insults about? I'm quite serious. I can't for the life of me understand why you post here.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jrchamblee Junior Member (Idle past 4617 days) Posts: 14 Joined:
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Yes because several of our founding father's were Christians, that is already known as you can research them for your self, I think most of America is Christian, but there is Freedom of religion here so other religion is here to.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 1056 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Your logic is as sound as your grasp on English prose.
"There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." -Dawkins
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1660 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi jrchamberlee
Yes because several of our founding father's were Christians, that is already known as you can research them for your self, I think most of America is Christian, but there is Freedom of religion here so other religion is here to. Really? By your logic ... America is a Deist nation because several of our founding fathers were Deists, that is already known as you can research them for yourself, ... but there is Freedom of Religion here, so other religions are here as well. or even more telling: America is a White nation because several of our founding fathers were white, that is already known, as you can research them for yourself, ... (do I really need to go further?) Please note that Evangelical Christians and Mormonism did not exist back then, so -- again according to your logic -- America is NOT an Evangelical Christian or Mormon nation because none of the founding fathers were Evangelical Christians or Mormons, that is already known, as you can research this for yourself, ... but there it Freedom of Religion here, so other religions are here ... and this now includes Evangelical Christians and Mormons as well as Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, Pentacostal christians, deists, jews, muslims, hindus, atheists, native beliefs, etc etc etc. More importantly, virtually ALL founding fathers were secularists (meaning they believed that church and state should be separate, to each his own) Because of the Freedom of Religion, ALL religious beliefs and non-beliefs are treated on an equal level, and individuals have the right and freedom to believe in whatever faith they desire as long as they do not try to force their belief on others. Because of the Freedom of Religion here, there are now more varieties of religions here than existed during the founding of the nation. Do a majority of Americans now identify themselves as Christian? Yes, however they are divided into several significantly different sects. Thinking that this makes the US a Christian nation is like thinking that white founding fathers and the majority of white people in america make it a white nation ... which is quite curious if we have a black president eh? Enjoy. Edited by Zen Deist, : clrty & brevityby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2
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Message 1:
Percy writes:
Message 108:
Is America a Christian Nation founded by Christians and based upon Christian principles?jrchamblee writes:
Something that's been bothering me every since shortly after 1980 when the RRR came up the claim Percy's talking about: just exactly which founding principles are they talking about and just how are those supposed to be Christian in origin. Yes because several of our founding father's were Christians, that is already known as you can research them for your self, I think most of America is Christian, but there is Freedom of religion here so other religion is here to. Let's start with Freedom of Religion, which you yourself brought up. How is that supposed to be Christian? Where in Christian doctrine is everybody given the right to believe what they want to believe, even to join other religions if they want? That thought seems to me to be quite foreign to Christianity. In Rabbinic Literature class, our teacher, a rabbi, told us about a famous Italian rabbi who had been a Christian but who converted to Judaism. But he had to keep his conversion a secret, because Constantinian law, which was in effect throughout Europe from the time of Emperor Constantine until the mid-1800's, made converting from Christianity a capital crime, ie punishable by death. That Christian principle doesn't quite sound like Freedom of Religion to me, but rather quite the opposite. And I'm sure you are also aware of how worshipping other gods fares in the Bible. What about democracy? You know, the pagan Greek idea of self government. Or a republican government, you know, the pagan Roman idea of representative government with its two assemblies and a triune executive. When James Madison was travelling to the Constitutional Convention, was he studying his Bible for ideas of how to form this new government? No, he was busy studying classical history, ie the histories of ancient pagan Greece and Rome. And it is no accident that our federal government is based on those pagan governments. Indeed, the very idea of self-government and of the governed granting the government its right to govern, derives much more from humanism, the philosophy that had sparked the Renaissance, the Rebirth of Western Civilization, than from Christianity. The strongest expression of this idea, along with the Preamble to the Constitution, is the Declaration of Independence, which flies completely in the face of the prevailing governing principle that was truly Christian, the Divine Right of Kings. Indeed, King James had his version of the Bible commissioned because the other popular English translation did not sufficiently emphasis the Divine Right of Kings. I trust that you can see why such Religious Right claims never made any sense to me. Had you ever given it much thought yourself?
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Yes because several of our founding father's were Christians, that is already known as you can research them for your self, I think most of America is Christian, but there is Freedom of religion here so other religion is here to. Um wasent your Abraham Lincoln an atheist, or at least aa documented sceptic. So it would stand to reason that since your founding father was an atheist America is an atheist nation ?? Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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Panda Member (Idle past 3968 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Abraham Lincoln wasn't president until ~90 years after America was founded.
I don't think he was born when the founding fathers founded America. I realise that some people encompass a wider group of politicians when using the phrase 'founding fathers', but I don't think Lincoln is in that list either. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Lol dint know that dunno much about American history, i thought he was one of the first.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2550 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
He was the 16th president.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4483 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined:
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you are just as bad, in fact i think you are one of the worst, way worse than even the British. I think you are the meanest troll on here. you are 10x worse than I am, but I know you like to tease and cause trouble.
so to honestly answer your question: no, unless I happen to have the misfortune of having to communicate with you. I have begged the Admin for an ignore option on this site, so I would never have to read any of the juvenile shit that you type, but its not a perfect world. If you notice I try not to respond to you (because its a total waste of fucking time). but your post clearly illustrates my thoughts, just name calling and general assholery. ADVICE: ignore my posts, and leave me the fuck alone.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1510 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Tell you what, Champ. I'll give you a chance to put your money where your mouth is. I've got nearly 3,000 posts here, you've got less than 1,000, roughly a 3 to 1 ratio. I'd bet that for every post of yours that you can find that is all substance, no insults, I can find 5 of mine that are. And I'd bet that each of mine that I select would be longer than yours as well.
But you won't do that. You're not about substance and backing up what you say with evidence. You're about whining and making shit up. So my second bet is that you either won't respond to this, or you'll dismiss it with some lame ass excuse. Edited by subbie, : SubtitleRidicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1660 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi dwise1, nice post.
I trust that you can see why such Religious Right claims never made any sense to me. Had you ever given it much thought yourself? And then there is the whole issue of the wall of separation of church and state and who the letter was written to from one of the founding fathers explaining it. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2
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The specific wording, "wall of separation of church and state", may have been in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist congregation, but he was just describing a concept that had already been presented to the public about 40 years earlier by his life-long friend and fellow Founder, James Madison, in A Memorial and Remonstrance (my emphasis added):
quote:The situation under which that document was written is described on my page, http://dwise1.net/rel_lib/memorial.html, which contains its text: quote:It should be noted that Madison wrote A Memorial and Remonstrance in 1785, a few years before he drafted the First Amendment, so here we have the original intent of that amendment. The first paragraph expounds on the idea of rights of conscience, that "The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." The following paragraphs examine the detrimental effects of mixing church and state.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4483 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined:
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Is it so hard to stay on topic? yet another post of you talking shit.
LOL@U Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given. Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
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