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Author Topic:   Another anti-evolution bill, Missouri 2012
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 248 of 283 (651283)
02-06-2012 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Warthog
02-02-2012 7:25 PM


Re: general reply to the bombsquad
warthog writes:
AE, making up your own mind is important. I agree fully. The delusion that you have the necessary background knowledge to fully understand all of the concepts without relevant education as well as the ability to magically find all of the relevant data on the internet is magnificent in its hubris. Especially if you have never contributed any relevant, original work yourself.
Relevant education to understand elementary school level science class, and its instruction to 6 year olds (as stated previously here). Check, I have that knowledge. Any more brain busters? The delusion that one must understand the minutia of ALL biology to teach an elementary biology class is all on you. The delusion that 1st grade science class requires a science based degree, relevant original work, and relevant data is hilarious! You could have a bachelor’s in English and teach 1st grade science class. You are too funny man. Get a grip on realitymaaaannnn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Warthog, posted 02-02-2012 7:25 PM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Warthog, posted 02-06-2012 11:01 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 249 of 283 (651285)
02-06-2012 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Percy
02-02-2012 9:09 PM


Re: I've Shown You Mine...
percy writes:
The outcome of efforts by boards of education and state legislatures to promote creationism has been very consistently one-sided, but as we can see by your own example, fundamentalists seem more than willing to keep repeating this history.
And as we can see by your example, Authoritarians will stop at nothing to make everyone follow their rules.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Percy, posted 02-02-2012 9:09 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Percy, posted 02-06-2012 9:32 AM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 252 of 283 (651303)
02-06-2012 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Dr Adequate
02-06-2012 10:04 AM


Re: I've Shown You Mine...
grammar nazi writes:
My surname has an a after the e. Now, what was I saying about liberals? I forget, I have Alzheimer's and I was never all that bright to begin with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-06-2012 10:04 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 254 of 283 (651316)
02-06-2012 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Warthog
02-06-2012 11:01 AM


Re: general reply to the bombsquad
warthog writes:
Correct me if I'm wrong but your response here in the context of this thread suggests that you think schoolteachers (including, of course English teachers) should be deciding for themselves what is 'sciencey' enough to teach their classes.
You can count on that correction. Close but no cigar. Not that they should be deciding for themselves, but that they should be allowed to decide for themselves.
It suggests that these teachers have the background knowledge and time to sift through obscure data and therefore be able to overrule the opinions of the scientific community. Don't forget subscriptions to all of the journals they'll need to have just to get at the data in he first place - otherwise they're often just stuck with the abstracts.
Because all of that is necessary to teach 1st grade science. Riiight ::rolls eyes::
We're talking about deciding the consensus of what kids are taught about science, not how hard it is to wow them with a chemical reaction. This is about curriculum, not teaching. Science teachers should teach about what scientists have learned.
I haven’t said otherwise.
You are also saying the same thing about yourself. What data have you looked at to come to your all encompassing theory of the universe? What makes you think that your single viewpoint is sufficient to even know all of the questions? Where did you get your data and how did you have time to go over all of it? Not to mention testing it for yourself.
Its elementary school, here you go again with your slippery slope argument that you just cant get over.
I still maintain that your arrogance is breathtaking.
Whatever dude, I am not the one talking science journals and knowing the universe to teach 6 year olds the difference between a plant and an animal.
Get over yourself already. LOL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Warthog, posted 02-06-2012 11:01 AM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Warthog, posted 02-06-2012 12:28 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 256 of 283 (651587)
02-08-2012 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Warthog
02-06-2012 12:28 PM


Re: general reply to the bombsquad
quote:
No, because a knowledge foundation is a structured thing and when some idiot comes along and decides to teach them that evolution is an atheist hoax and that divining rods are powered by the devil, it'll screw up their education. First grade science is the foundation for the next grade and so on. Without that, they can never get to the point that they can seriously decide for themselves - they don't have the skills.
If that was true then evolution would have never been taught and we wouldn’t be were we are today.
quote:
You're the one who misrepresented it to be about teaching kids...
Tell me what I am saying again. LOL you will do well around here with those tactics (they are extremely popular).
If we're just talking about elementary school, then there's really no debating the science at that level. This is foundational stuff. Why should anyone want to change what is taught according to their own 'higher' understanding?
I dunno. I have already said this is some nonsense BS bill, but you came to the party late so I guess I have to repeat everything.
What would you change with yours?
Nothing. I went to Catholic School, I was taught by Jesuits, we don’t allow this crazy protestant creationism in our schools (at least to ones I went to). I never even heard about creationism till I got to public school (university) at age 18, it is still kinda funny to me in a ridiculous way. Always beware of Sola Scriptura
Elementary school is not the place for religious quacks to confuse the meaning of science for children.
I agree with you, but this bill doesn’t say anything about that.
That's what churches are for.
That is what parochial schools are for, it’s just sad that these fundaMENTALists don’t put this energy into having their own private schools, or take the time to do more home schooling.
If I'm wrong about this, what are the things that schoolteachers should be allowed to do that they shouldn't be doing?
It seems we are talking about two different things. I am talking about the bill and if Missourians should be able to implement it, and I not talking about teaching religion in science class.
I can’t believe these guys are try to do this in the form of legislation, I think it would be more sneaky and efficient to create their own textbooks, and then get schools to use their question science textbooks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Warthog, posted 02-06-2012 12:28 PM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-08-2012 12:33 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 259 by Trixie, posted 02-08-2012 1:37 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied
 Message 263 by Taq, posted 02-08-2012 5:46 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied
 Message 264 by Warthog, posted 02-09-2012 8:43 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 258 of 283 (651609)
02-08-2012 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Dr Adequate
02-08-2012 12:33 PM


Re: general reply to the bombsquad
Now, OK, if we "teach both sides" then the kids are in with a chance, but have you ever thought about how that's meant to work?
not really. I would guess by having and elective religion class, and the religion class teaching stuff contrary to the science class, maybe? This is a difficult topic for me because in my 13 years of elementary and high school, I attended Catholic school, and the religion and the science never got mixed up, they weren't against each other. One was natural and the other was supernatural. the religion did get mixed into history class a little bit, and social studies a bit, but that is not the argument.
So teaching both sides goes like this: "There are no beneficial mutations, yes there are.
sry but I doubt timmy learns much of anything about mutations.
I think it is more like this:
(a picture of an apple tree) "what is this?"
"an apple tree"
"yes it is a KIND of fruit bearing tree, it was created on the x day"
"it is scientifically a plant"
wow big confusion. one is plant, one is a kind of fruit bearing tree.
next slide (a wolf).
now in 7th grade science i am sure it gets tricky because that is when biology comes in.
If the teacher answers this honestly, s/he isn't teaching both sides, but if s/he refuses to answer, s/he isn't even teaching. The students have gained no knowledge. After listening to the teacher, they would know that there either are or there aren't beneficial mutations, which is just the law of the excluded middle. It would be as though math teachers were required to teach that seven eights either are or are not fifty-six, and that seven eights either are or are not forty-three. What would be the point?
I am not even sure the teachers dispense that much knowledge to begin with. I think the knowledge comes from reading materials that are assign as homework and study. I didn't learn biology from the lecture, I learned it by reading the book three times and memorizing the material.
if you really wanted to teach both sides, then give the data on both sides, and have the students (at an appropriate age) read both of them, and make thier decision in the form of a supported report, and then give the report to the class. that way the students could learn, research, critical thinking, and speaking at the same time.
but i digress, my argument here has nothing to do with teaching creationism in school, I am not even a creationist, that shit is wack. I was just saying the fundies put a good bill together here, its too loose and unenforceable, so its mostly BS and wont effect anything, but they are free to do this. Somehow my support for self determination made me into a supporter of teaching religion in science, but hey this the "slander Christians, make strawmen about them and call them names website, so it has to be expected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-08-2012 12:33 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-08-2012 2:23 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied
 Message 262 by Omnivorous, posted 02-08-2012 2:42 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 265 of 283 (651690)
02-09-2012 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Warthog
02-09-2012 8:43 AM


here is the crux
Warthog writes:
Yes it does.
The governing body of a school corporation may offer instruction on various theories of the origin of life. The curriculum for the course must include theories from multiple religions, which may include, but is not limited to, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Scientology.
I believe that this is unconstitutional.
in bold there is a link ( Just a moment... )
see what's wrong? you are arguing here about a Missouri bill and when confronted you link an Indiana bill? do you have any clue what the fuck you are talking about? (wait don't answer, your actions are louder than your words)
you post tons of examples of things i have said to try and paint a picture about me and then in reference to Missouri you post some off the wall shit from Indiana.
I basically don't have to say anything because you defeat yourself with this kind of nonsense.
Warthog: "see AE here is the Missouri bill (link to something in Indiana)"
ME: funniest post i read all week. milk almost came out my nose.
LOL you are arguing with me about what i said and then you link something completely off topic. and then your aha momenent with your snarky concealed link, and BAM its about something in another state! haha I guess this just shows you are pretty clueless about what you are talking about, when you don't even know the difference between two states.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
"all too easy" --- Darth Vader
I know it's very difficult for you to keep up but this thread is a about Missouri house bill 1276 and NOT Indiana senate bill 89.
you are hilarious man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Warthog, posted 02-09-2012 8:43 AM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Panda, posted 02-09-2012 10:43 AM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 270 by Warthog, posted 02-09-2012 8:11 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 267 of 283 (651709)
02-09-2012 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Panda
02-09-2012 10:43 AM


Re: here is the crux
try and keep up, I'll post what i want.
thank you

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Panda, posted 02-09-2012 10:43 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Panda, posted 02-09-2012 5:30 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 271 of 283 (652314)
02-13-2012 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Panda
02-09-2012 5:30 PM


Re: here is the crux
yeah riiight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Panda, posted 02-09-2012 5:30 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Panda, posted 02-13-2012 11:43 AM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
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