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Author Topic:   SOPA/PIPA and 'Intellectual Property'
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 106 of 303 (649446)
01-23-2012 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Jon
01-20-2012 3:49 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
thanks for the clarification.
what about software? We have software engineers here who program and design specific tools for a specific piece of software. The software is designed by another company that is sold publicly, and any here could purchase it. but our tools that we have created in-house, are not for sale and are not for use, even by the company that designed the program on which the tools run.
If I were to quit working here and go to our competitor across the street, I am not allowed to use the tools nor show them how to run the tools, because they are intellectual property, and I have a strict NDA.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Jon, posted 01-20-2012 3:49 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Jon, posted 01-23-2012 8:45 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 107 of 303 (649512)
01-23-2012 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Artemis Entreri
01-23-2012 12:21 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
I am not allowed to use the tools nor show them how to run the tools, because they are intellectual property, and I have a strict NDA.
Why isn't that sufficient?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-23-2012 12:21 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-24-2012 3:55 PM Jon has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 108 of 303 (649618)
01-24-2012 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Jon
01-23-2012 8:45 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
because you want to talk about intellectual property and some notion about "is it real" this topic is not about NDAs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Jon, posted 01-23-2012 8:45 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Jon, posted 01-24-2012 3:58 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 303 (649619)
01-24-2012 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Artemis Entreri
01-24-2012 3:55 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
because you want to talk about intellectual property and some notion about "is it real" this topic is not about NDAs.
My point was that you don't need to create some separate legal classification along with slews of difficult-to-enforce laws in order to get the kind of protection your company got for their 'trade secret'.
You just need a contract.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-24-2012 3:55 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-24-2012 4:22 PM Jon has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 110 of 303 (649627)
01-24-2012 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Jon
01-24-2012 3:58 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
no laws just contracts?
roflmfao what is the difference?
what would keep one from breaking a contract if not for what do you call them [rhetorical]?
laws.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Jon, posted 01-24-2012 3:58 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Jon, posted 01-24-2012 4:54 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 112 by crashfrog, posted 01-25-2012 10:30 AM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 111 of 303 (649640)
01-24-2012 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Artemis Entreri
01-24-2012 4:22 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
If you play dumb too often...
It will no longer being 'playing'.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-24-2012 4:22 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-31-2012 2:27 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 112 of 303 (649731)
01-25-2012 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Artemis Entreri
01-24-2012 4:22 PM


Re: Eleven Herbs and Spices
what would keep one from breaking a contract if not for what do you call them [rhetorical]?
laws.
Enforcement of contract is a civil, not a criminal, matter. It's not like contracts were toothless before the DMCA. Seconding Jon: stop being dumb.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-24-2012 4:22 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 101 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


(1)
Message 113 of 303 (649872)
01-26-2012 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Granny Magda
01-20-2012 8:37 AM


Great logo, shame about the cause
Seriously, that logo is great.
However, I agree with the OP that intellectual property is a dodgy concept. It seems quite plainly to stifle creativity and dissemination of cultural "goods". And its really reductive to say that the primary (the only?) incentive for creative types is pecuniary.
But even if we were to accept that by copying films, music, books we actually killed the film, music and book industries, does anyone seriously think that great films wouldn't be made in people's spare time, that no more pop songs would be written?
Balderdash, surely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Granny Magda, posted 01-20-2012 8:37 AM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 10:00 AM Tusko has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 114 of 303 (649889)
01-26-2012 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Tusko
01-26-2012 7:01 AM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
Tusko writes:
But even if we were to accept that by copying films, music, books we actually killed the film, music and book industries, does anyone seriously think that great films wouldn't be made in people's spare time, that no more pop songs would be written?
Balderdash, surely.
I don't think anyone is saying that.
The existence of copyright doesn't prevent anybody from making any art - it just allows those that want to, to make money from it.
Those artists that wish to, are totally free to make their art available without copyright. Interesting how not many do though isn't it?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Tusko, posted 01-26-2012 7:01 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Tusko, posted 01-26-2012 10:40 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 117 by Jon, posted 01-26-2012 12:20 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 101 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


(1)
Message 115 of 303 (649895)
01-26-2012 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Tangle
01-26-2012 10:00 AM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
Sorry, I tend to get a bit excitable and then unnecessary rhetorical flourishes happen. My main point was that the skull cassette logo is super-great.
However, I want to respond to this:
quote:
Interesting how not many do though isn't it?
Assuming this is true, I think this tells us something about how our society constituted and about artists' expectations, but not much more.
Ours is a culture where the merit of music (for instance) is recognised and rewarded by recording contracts, exposure, sales, etc... but it isn't that much of a stretch to imagine a society where artists are motivated by non-financial carrots - e.g. the kudos and recognition that a great song will bring.
But I'm not sure that it is true that there isn't loads of 'free' art available. I invite you to have a look at soundcloud.com - artists are giving loads of music away there. It is true that they aren't famous for the most part, (perhaps understandable when they don't have a phenomenal marketing budget) but there is a considerable amount of interesting music there, of at least modest artistic merit.
And even in our culture where money and success and recognition are tied together much closer than need be, it isn't unheard of for a famous band give a record away for free.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 10:00 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 11:29 AM Tusko has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 116 of 303 (649897)
01-26-2012 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Tusko
01-26-2012 10:40 AM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
Tusko writes:
But I'm not sure that it is true that there isn't loads of 'free' art available. I invite you to have a look at soundcloud.com - artists are giving loads of music away there.
The thing is, lots of would be musicians can and do let people listen to their music for free and always have - but they rarely, if ever, give away their copyright. This from SoundCloud's T&Cs
SoundCloud is a platform for creators and we expect all SoundCloud users to respect other people’s copyright.
It goes on to explain what copyright is and how many finger nails will be removed if you abuse it.
Learn about SoundCloud copyright information - Listen to music
Music is probably one art form that is going to have a net benefit from the internet's ability to allow individuals to share files - the big vested interest of the globalmusicmegacorp disagree. But that doesn't matter because they only control the distribution rights to the music that they have bought the copyright of - if an artist wishes to free-publish they can and I'm sure they will.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Tusko, posted 01-26-2012 10:40 AM Tusko has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 117 of 303 (649904)
01-26-2012 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Tangle
01-26-2012 10:00 AM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
Interesting how not many do though isn't it?
None you hear of. But as Tusko points out, this is more likely due to marketing budgets and publicity than to actual quantity and (especially) quality.
I have sampled home-made and commercially produced entertainment and can tell you that the quality is of little difference The only thing the music industry has going for it is its large marketing budget, but this will, in time, be of little help to an industry that, as nwr said, has "not adapted to modern digital technology". With things like SOPA and PIPA, what we are seeing is not an attempt to protect art and innovation, but the beginning tears of a tantrum by a failing industry that refuses to compete but prefers, instead, to use legal force to advance its product.
A chief worry now should be what steps the industry will try to take in the future to put an end to free artistic expression from any source in order to ensure itself a monopoly on 'entertainment'. When a company decides it is going to make money freedom be damned, we should all be a little worried and take steps to keep the money from talking louder than the singers.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 10:00 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 12:39 PM Jon has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 118 of 303 (649905)
01-26-2012 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Jon
01-26-2012 12:20 PM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
None you hear of.
None that I can find either. If anyone CAN find any I'd be grateful because I need some rights-free music for my business.
Lots of people will allow sharing, but they don't give away their copyright because one day, if they get lucky, it might be worth something. (But without copyright, it can never be.)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Jon, posted 01-26-2012 12:20 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 01-26-2012 2:11 PM Tangle has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 303 (649913)
01-26-2012 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Tangle
01-26-2012 12:39 PM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
Lots of people will allow sharing, but they don't give away their copyright because one day, if they get lucky, it might be worth something. (But without copyright, it can never be.)
Who wants artists to give away copyrights?
Who wants them to distribute their work without charging for it?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 12:39 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2012 3:17 PM Jon has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 120 of 303 (649925)
01-26-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Jon
01-26-2012 2:11 PM


Re: Great logo, shame about the cause
Who wants artists to give away copyrights
crashfrog and Huntard to name but two. It's been the majority of this thread.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 01-26-2012 2:11 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Perdition, posted 01-26-2012 3:22 PM Tangle has replied

  
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