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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Born that way. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Catholic Scientist writes: That just some old jewish stuff that Jesus came to rid us of anyways. This always makes me laugh too. It's pick 'n mix. That's for them, but this is for us - except that bit which is still ok and maybe that is too now you mention it. (And of course He never meant the slave stuff anyway so we can forget that now.) I don't really have a problem with all this, it's just that they then try to rationalise it and try to make it make sense. God knows why, just believe and forget that it's all made up anyway.Life, don't talk to me about life.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
More of the same in the debate of the are people born gay? I think it the answer is so obvious, and people are indeed born homosexual, but that is my bias. What makes you think it's obvious?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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This always makes me laugh too. It's pick 'n mix. That's for them, but this is for us That's what Jesus himself claimed: its about the spirit of the law, not the letter. Love god and love your neighbor as yourself. Simple. Its not really pick-n-mix... well for some it is.
(And of course He never meant the slave stuff anyway so we can forget that now.) Christians are supposed to follow Christ... we're not Biblicans... well some are.
I don't really have a problem with all this, it's just that they then try to rationalise it and try to make it make sense. It makes sense that people want things to make sense and you can do that by rationalizing it.
God knows why, just believe and forget that it's all made up anyway. That's just not good theology.
Christianity shouldn't really have a problem with homosexuals, and you'll find that many don't. Now, sex is a whole different thing, but they don't want anybody having fun with it So for the specific topic here: Don't you think that Jesus would preach to love the gays? Don't you think that the passage about eunichs brought up in the OP could be interpreted to be referring to the gays as being born that way?
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
Well it is is obvious to me, so from my POV, it is obvious.
Because I think that people ARE BORN GAY. they are not made that way or created that way, or trained to be that way, nor do I think that they choose to be that way. If you have anyone in your life that is gay, that you care about, then you know the answer.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
AT writes: and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. Aside from the OT scriptures cited etc there's Romans 1:27 in which the Apostle Paul says in the NIV, Romans 1:26, 27:
quote: This thread is about the Biblical position on this. The fact is that when you corroborate all scripture, both OT and NT, the consensus is that homosexuality is a grievous sin, relative to Jehovah, the Biblical god's perspective. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by Jehovah, god, because of the city tolerated the practice of homosexuality.
Wikiacknowledges this. quote: Having said the above, I do not discriminate against gays, as to how I treat them, in or out of business. Though I view the practice as a deviation of what is natural and what is moral, over the years they have been fairly treated just as straits are. If one or a couple were my neighbors, they would be treated equally as anyone else. I've always had good relations with neighbors over the years. The same would be with a gay neighbor. Thus, I don't regard myself as homophobic. As all are well aware, I consider the Bible as truth and as relevant in all matters. This is no exception. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future. Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
just as i suspected you have no evidence, typical posturing, typical taz, typical trollish behavior.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
C S writes: So for the specific topic here: Don't you think that Jesus would preach to love the gays? Yes, of course. it's just a shame that 'real christians' often disagree.
Don't you think that the passage about eunichs brought up in the OP could be interpreted to be referring to the gays as being born that way? I neither know nor care. I long ago realised that once you've got the 'do as you would be done by' message, the rest is just literary cricicism.Life, don't talk to me about life.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined:
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First of all if you are to lazy (or don't have the time) to type out Artemis Entreri, AE is a better abbreviation that AT, I wasn’t sure whom you were quoting for a minute. Though it is also odd to me that someone would abbreviate a screen name and then go on to type out a long post (what are you saving like a half a second?).
Buzsaw writes: This thread is about the Biblical position on this. The fact is that when you corroborate all scripture, both OT and NT, the consensus is that homosexuality is a grievous sin, relative to Jehovah, the Biblical god's perspective. Says who? That is one line about what the Godless Romans are like. This passage (and much of the entire book) is about Paul’s evangelical journey to Rome to speak to the Romans. This passage is about Godless people. To take one sentence out of context and twist it around to mean that the NT is anti-homosexual is quite a leap of faith indeed. After reading the whole passage you may argue that the bible is Anti-Pagan-Roman, but to say it is against homosexuals is inaccurate IMHO.
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by Jehovah, god, because of the city tolerated the practice of homosexuality. Interesting that Rome and Corinth were spared, isn’t it? Especially interesting that instead of destroying Rome or Corinth for the practice of allowing homosexuality, that God instead sent Christian Missionaries there to spread the good word.
As all are well aware, I consider the Bible as truth and as relevant in all matters. This is no exception. So why the mixed method? Why destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, but spare and evangelize to Rome andCorinth? I find the bible to be too contradictory to be taken as a literal truth in almost any manner (as this example clearly illustrates).
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4
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Well it is is obvious to me, so from my POV, it is obvious. That's, frankly, not much of an answer. It isn't an argument, it can't convince anyone. It gives no reason to anyone else to agree with you. That means you can't argue from it to any other position.
Because I think that people ARE BORN GAY. they are not made that way or created that way, or trained to be that way, nor do I think that they choose to be that way. That's a pretty selective (and confused, tbh) list, and again not an argument. Why did you leave off the most obvious of answers: "people acquire the personality trait of being gay through a complex interaction of genes and the environment just as they acquire other personality traits"?
If you have anyone in your life that is gay, that you care about, then you know the answer. Caring about people is not a well recognised method of determining the truth of statements about reality. At best, your claim is naive, at worst it's cheap blackmail.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
like yeah whatever bullshit you say d00d.
are you a droid? i guess that is what i get for answering your question. ridicule and you telling me that my opinions are bad and wrong. have a nice day, please go troll someone else's thread. Edited by Artemis Entreri, : mr jack can fuck off, what an asshole.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4
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I don't think your opinions are bad and wrong. What I want you to do is present some sensible arguments in favour of your position.
See, what you've stumbled into is a forum for debate. Simply putting forth your opinions is not enough here. We expect you to actually support your opinions with the reasons why you hold those opinions, and you can expect those reasons to be challenged by other posters. If you have a problem with doing that I suggest you go somewhere else, because you will not find your time here enjoyable.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
nope just not debating with you.
you can respond and have the last word as i can see you are that type of "try hard" but this is my last response to you in this thread. I realize this will make you stay around, trolling and talking trash (like you just have your last two posts) trying to elicit a response, but this is a semi public forum and the admin allows that sort of behavior so there is nothing I can do to stop it. have a dice day. PS you need to work on your trolling because you are not very good at it.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4
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Asking you to actually make an argument in defence of your position is not trolling.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3318 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Remember that I'm not a christian. My evidence is the christian majority. Don't take my word for it. Take theirs.
Do you or do you not agree that the christian right put into place anti-sodomy laws in many states and that those laws were finally declared unconstitutional in 2003? Do you or do you not agree that GWB is a christian? Seems kinda counterproductive for you to argue with me, considering I'm not a christian. Why don't you argue with the christian majority who don't agree with your interpretation? I'm just a messenger of the christian moral superior majority. They say gays should be thrown into jail. Who are you to say the majority of christians out there are not true christians? Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
taz writes: Remember that I'm not a christian. I don't use Christianity to argue in a science thread, so why come here and do the opposite? If you are ignorant to this topic or have nothing to add, then why say anything at all unless your goal is to troll (which I believe is the true reason you are here).
taz writes: My evidence is the christian majority. Don't take my word for it. Take theirs. Are you telling me to use Argumentum ad populum as logical evidence? Is that even possible?
Do you or do you not agree that the christian right put into place anti-sodomy laws in many states and that those laws were finally declared unconstitutional in 2003?
Hmm I am not sure. Probably by Christians, but I cannot assume that they came from the right or the left. So to answer your question I have to say: No. For example here in Virginia in 1777 A committee works on a revised set of criminal law for Virginia. Thomas Jefferson and other liberals attempt to have the death penalty for sodomy replaced by castration for men and boring a hole through the nose of a woman. The committee rejects their suggestion and retains the death penalty. Source: Virginia Do you consider Thomas Jefferson to be a Christian Right Winger? I think he was a right winger, though I am unsure as to his religion, I always considered him a Deist at best. Many on the left have told me that our 3rd President was on their side.
Do you or do you not agree that GWB is a christian?
I think you are referring to the 43rd president of the USA. If that is whom you were asking about, then to answer that question: Yes.
Seems kinda counterproductive for you to argue with me, considering I'm not a christian. Why don't you argue with the christian majority who don't agree with your interpretation? All I asked was for the evidence of your assertions. You stated I was wrong because the Majority disagreed with me, and I said show me, and you have been unable or unwilling to do so. Thread-jacking (as you seem to always do) in the process.
I'm just a messenger of the christian moral superior majority. They say gays should be thrown into jail. Evidence please?
Who are you to say the majority of christians out there are not true christians? I never said that and for you to insinuate that I did is nothing more than a very weakly constructed STRAWMAN.
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