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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 505 of 602 (639638)
11-02-2011 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Rahvin
11-02-2011 2:14 PM


Re: LITTLE RED HEN
Gee, somebody read "Atlas Shrugged" and thought it had something to do with reality...
The really weird thing is that Coyote is in fact an archaeologist. Think about this. While I was earning my way working nightshifts and making bread, I mean actual literal non-metaphorical bread, that stuff that one makes out of flour, water, yeast, and salt --- he was taking taxpayers' money to find out what Babylonians thought about bread during the Late Amorite Period in Mesopotamia. Or something, he's never actually told us what his vital researches have uncovered.
If he should ever feel the need to "go Galt", will anyone notice?
And if he wants to threaten me with not getting a loaf, then which one of us has actually made bread?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Rahvin, posted 11-02-2011 2:14 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 506 of 602 (639639)
11-02-2011 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by jar
11-02-2011 2:20 PM


Re: voting systems
Yes, eventually someone would get elected.
One person that no-one disagrees with? Where will you find him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 2:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 2:39 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 511 by Modulous, posted 11-02-2011 2:52 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 514 of 602 (639648)
11-02-2011 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by jar
11-02-2011 2:39 PM


Re: voting systems
No, read what I write; one person that everyone can live with. Consensus does not require that the person be a favorite, or even desirable, simply that it is someone who everyone can live with.
I have read what you wrote. It goes like this:
The ideal system would include an absolute veto vote as well, where if anyone said I simply cannot live with candidate X being elected, then that person could not be elected.
What does that mean if not that one person could veto the electoral choice of everyone else? What can that mean except that?
If you would now like to change your mind, feel free.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 2:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 3:38 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 516 of 602 (639650)
11-02-2011 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by jar
11-02-2011 3:38 PM


Re: voting systems
Yes, one person could veto all the other votes.
Building consensus works that way, it is not free from tension, free from conflict, is often messy and almost always very slow.
In the ideal system that one veto stops the process and it is halted until a solution can be found that the person holding the veto finally says "I can live with that".
That might work in a small village, with a homogeneous culture, with a completely different constitution and culture from ours. I can't see how else it might work.
I mean ... how do you actually visualize this playing out?

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 Message 515 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 3:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 518 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 3:52 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 536 of 602 (639750)
11-03-2011 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 522 by jar
11-03-2011 10:05 AM


Re: voting systems
Which is fine.
No decision is a decision.
The result is that nothing happens.
We can already do nothing. We're good at doing nothing. We have so much gridlock that it would be our major national export if anyone wanted to buy it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 10:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 2:50 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 540 of 602 (639760)
11-03-2011 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by jar
11-03-2011 2:50 PM


Re: voting systems
And if we start early enough in educating the electorate they will learn that to get anything accomplished it will be necessary to build a consensus.
So, we start educating people now ... and in seventy years, when everyone living is dead, we might be prepared for your new political system ... when our present educational system still leaves 10% of people wrong about what seven times eight is? I mean, that's not even a matter of opinion, it's fifty-six. Twenty-nine percent of Americans think that the sun goes round the earth. But you want education to deliver a complete political consensus, such that if we can't reach consensus we can't do anything?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 2:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Rahvin, posted 11-03-2011 5:52 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 542 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 5:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 543 of 602 (639765)
11-03-2011 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by jar
11-03-2011 5:55 PM


Re: voting systems
No, I never said that we can't do anything ...
But if, without complete consensus, we can't do anything, then we cannot, in fact, do anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 5:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 544 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 6:09 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 583 of 602 (640454)
11-09-2011 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 571 by Coyote
11-08-2011 10:09 PM


Re: Democracy
A quote attributed to Margaret Thatcher goes along the lines of
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money...
Another quote attributed to Margaret Thatcher is: "Sacrifice your newborn children unto me that my daemonic blood-thirst may be slaked with their innocent gore".
Really, Margaret Thatcher? Why don't you quote General Pinochet while you're at it, I bet he had some cutting things to say about socialism.
Just look to Greece, Spain, and the US for examples of this.
If by "socialism" you mean "cutting taxes for the rich and invading countries at random", then yes, that does explain why the government is short a few bucks. Otherwise, not so much.
Let's play ... spot the socialism!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Coyote, posted 11-08-2011 10:09 PM Coyote has not replied

  
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