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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 226 of 602 (638079)
10-19-2011 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by xongsmith
10-19-2011 2:46 PM


Re: dog piling
I sense that we are dog piling on poor rueh.
That would leave two questions up to him --- whether we are dogpiling, and whether he deserves to be an object of your pity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by xongsmith, posted 10-19-2011 2:46 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 227 of 602 (638098)
10-19-2011 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by rueh
10-19-2011 2:09 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
I started typing a response and am unable to finish. I will get back to you as soon as time permits. Thank you for the interesting conversation.
Having read your posts over, you seem to be employing a new sort of fallacy which there isn't yet a name for.
You seem to believe:
(1) That the tax system should be less progressive.
(2) That the total amount of GDP paid to the government should be smaller.
Now, it is fair enough that you should believe both these things. But you also seem to believe that they are connected. When I argue for progressive taxation you come back at me by arguing for small government. But the only connection between flat-rate taxation and small government is that right-wingers like them both. In principle we could have a really small government which was funded exclusively by millionaires. Indeed, that stipulation would help to keep government small.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by rueh, posted 10-19-2011 2:09 PM rueh has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1282 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 228 of 602 (638139)
10-20-2011 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by crashfrog
10-19-2011 12:53 PM


Re: Millions and Billions and Trillions, oh my!
crashfrog writes:
3, plus one comma. You Brit pussies are the ones who've got it wrong (ask a Greek.) You don't even know they're called "zeros", lol!
What do the Greeks have to do with it? Millions and billions were invented by the French. That the Greeks later went on to get it wrong as well is besides the point.
To avoid wasting two posts on a topic derail:
Dr. Adequate writes:
I'm British by birth, but I have never used the supposedly British system of -illions and nor has any British person I've ever discussed it with; nor do British scientists or British newspapers use that system. Billion, trillion, quadrillion and so forth involve multiplying by a thousand, by the common consent of the English-speaking peoples, and the sooner we all get over it the better.
I was born after the government switched to using the shorter system, and I was still brought up with the older way*. And David Attenbrough always uses the old system, which is a stamp of approval I'm happy with.
And it's all well and good going by the English-language consensus if you only speak to English people. It's confusing as all fuck if you live on the continent and have to switch back and forth.
*(ABE) Although, to be fair, I think this was only because it was drilled into me by my union-rep father on the erroneous belief that it was Maggie who made the switch in the first place.
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by crashfrog, posted 10-19-2011 12:53 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2011 6:34 AM caffeine has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2620
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 229 of 602 (638140)
10-20-2011 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by caffeine
10-20-2011 6:06 AM


Re: Millions and Billions and Trillions, oh my!
Why don't we all just use scientific notation?
Yunno...10^9, 10^6, 10^12 - that sort of thing.
And the beauty of it is we are using scientific notation, which does not have a cultural bias.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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 Message 228 by caffeine, posted 10-20-2011 6:06 AM caffeine has not replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 230 of 602 (638141)
10-20-2011 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by rueh
10-18-2011 3:25 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Why is it more fair that the richer you are the higher the percentage? Why not 10% across the board regardless of your income? To me fairness is for it to be the same for everyone regardless of income.
Lets say your barley making ends meat 50000 simolens a year and your expenditures are the same paying 10% takes away 5000 simolens thats quite a lot for someone that does not have a lot to begin with its probably digging in to your food money, but if you are making 5 000 000 simolens a year you will hardly be any poorer if you give 1 000 000 up youl have enough to eat enough for a fine house enough for everything you need.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by rueh, posted 10-18-2011 3:25 PM rueh has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 231 of 602 (638155)
10-20-2011 10:01 AM


Well, the Teabaggers have come up with a well-thought out response. They're going to destroy capitalism. One business at a time. Specifically, their own businesses.

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 10:28 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 304 by Larni, posted 10-27-2011 10:11 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 232 of 602 (638160)
10-20-2011 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Dr Adequate
10-20-2011 10:01 AM


Re: Hiring Moratorium
Dr. Adequate writes:
Well, the Teabaggers have come up with a well-thought out response. They're going to destroy capitalism. One business at a time. Specifically, their own businesses.
Capitalism is not about hiring workers, perse. It's about making a profit. The link itemizes the reasons that it would not be profitable for small businesses to hire in a progressive socialistic economy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-20-2011 10:01 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-20-2011 10:39 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 234 by jar, posted 10-20-2011 10:47 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 235 by crashfrog, posted 10-20-2011 11:52 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 236 by Omnivorous, posted 10-20-2011 1:29 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 233 of 602 (638162)
10-20-2011 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
10-20-2011 10:28 AM


Re: Hiring Moratorium
Capitalism is not about hiring workers, perse. It's about making a profit. The link itemizes the reasons that it would not be profitable for small businesses to hire in a progressive socialistic economy.
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 10:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 97 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 234 of 602 (638164)
10-20-2011 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
10-20-2011 10:28 AM


Re: Hiring Moratorium
I gotta admit, that link is absolutely the funniest thing I've read in a long, long time.
I wonder if the author has ever had a job in the first place.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 10:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1725 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
(1)
Message 235 of 602 (638180)
10-20-2011 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
10-20-2011 10:28 AM


Re: Hiring Moratorium
The link itemizes the reasons that it would not be profitable for small businesses to hire in a progressive socialistic economy.
The link actually does not list even a single reason why it would not be profitable for small businesses to hire in an economy that doesn't exist; it itemizes only reasons that it's important for Tea Party fanatics to sabotage the economy until a Republican takes office.
In other words, it's another Tea Party shakedown. "Awful nice country you got here; shame if something were to... happen to it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 10:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 133 days)
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(3)
(1)
Message 236 of 602 (638199)
10-20-2011 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
10-20-2011 10:28 AM


Re: Hiring Moratorium
Seems to me they're doing something like this...

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 10:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3919 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 237 of 602 (638203)
10-20-2011 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Dr Adequate
10-19-2011 1:50 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
If we grant that this spending really is useless, then should we pay for it by taking away the money that the poor man was planning to spend on food or by taking away the money that the rich man was planning to spend on an oil-painting of his favorite French Poodle?
Ok I concede the point it makes more sense to take the money from those who have money to use on frivalous expendentatures than to take it from those who need it for their necessities. I believe that this satement,
quote:
You wish to suggest that some government spending is useless --- but the more that this is the case, the greater the moral case for taking it from the rich rather than the poor.
  —Dr. A
makes the most sense to me. However that doesn't change my mind any that the government is a bunch of incompetent boobs.
Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
Opening your mind to imagination shouldn't close it to reality.
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-19-2011 1:50 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-20-2011 1:59 PM rueh has replied
 Message 242 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 4:29 PM rueh has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 238 of 602 (638204)
10-20-2011 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by rueh
10-20-2011 1:44 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Ok I concede the point it makes more sense to take the money from those who have money to use on frivalous expendentatures than to take it from those who need it for their necessities.
Thank you for saying so.
However that doesn't change my mind any that the government is a bunch of incompetent boobs.
I think that every association of human beings is a bunch of incompetent boobs. It's just that we don't have any other options, like hiring Martians.
Nonetheless, there is something to be said for the government. People like to run it down, but I notice that those people (let's call them conservatives for the sake of convenience) still turn to the government when they actually want something done. When, for example, they wanted to invade Iraq, they didn't put their hands in their own pockets to hire an army of private mercenaries. They put the government's hands in taxpayers' pockets to pay for that most federal of institutions, the U.S. Army, to do the job that they wanted doing.
So by and large I find their rhetoric inconsistent. When they want something doing, and want it done well, they do in fact want it to be done by the government and funded by the taxpayer. When I hear any conservative advocating the abolition of the Army, I shall start to think that he is sincere.
But what happens instead is that if I suggest in the mildest tones that maybe we could try to fight against disease the same way we fought against Saddam Hussein and his imaginary WMDs, then the conservative will denounce me as an un-American Marxist. But my solution to disease is exactly the same as his solution to the imaginary WMDs --- I say, let the government do it. The only difference is that I want to tackle a real problem that actually kills Americans rather than an imaginary problem that someone made up.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by rueh, posted 10-20-2011 1:44 PM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by rueh, posted 10-20-2011 3:02 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3919 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 239 of 602 (638214)
10-20-2011 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Dr Adequate
10-20-2011 1:59 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
I think that every association of human beings is a bunch of ignorant boobs.
Dr. Adequate writes:
So by and large I find their rhetoric inconsistent. When they want something doing, and want it done well, they do in fact want it to be done by the government and funded by the taxpayer.
Sorry but I have worked maintaing to much infrastructure built by the Army Corp of Engineers to say that it will be done well.
Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
Opening your mind to imagination shouldn't close it to reality.
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-20-2011 1:59 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-20-2011 3:28 PM rueh has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 240 of 602 (638217)
10-20-2011 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by rueh
10-20-2011 3:02 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Sorry but I have worked maintaing to much infrastructure built by the Army Corp of Engineers to say that it will be done well.
But could we not admit that nothing is done particularly well?
"There is no straight thing made out of the crooked timber of humanity."
Let's admit our shared cynicism about the capacity of human beings to be competent. But that doesn't get us anywhere --- it doesn't allow us to decide between anarcho-capitalism or anarcho-syndicalism or comunism or fascism or social democracy or direct democracy or representative democracy or anything else. Because once we've admitted the problem, we still do not have the option of putting our society in the hands of hyper-intelligent Martians. Alas. Everything we do will in fact be decided by fallible human beings, one way or the other.
Now, if you had actual data suggesting that mercenaries paid by private investors would be better at war than the U.S. Army paid for by taxpayers ... then this would be a great time for you to present that data.
But no-one believes that. The people who shout about how government is ineffecient and how they want free markets and low taxes and small government still wanted Iraq to be invaded by a government agency controlled by the government and paid for through taxes levied by the government. Perhaps you're an exception, but 99% of them don't even believe what they're saying.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by rueh, posted 10-20-2011 3:02 PM rueh has not replied

Replies to this message:
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