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Author Topic:   Double-blind Testing is Scientifically Invalid
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 4 of 16 (636463)
10-06-2011 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ANI
10-06-2011 9:17 AM


Double blinding is not a means of making an experiment scientific. The only condition that makes an experiment scientific is a control experiment, in which we remove the test conditions in order to make sure that our results are not due to something other than our test conditions.
That is exactly what a double blind study does. The subjects are treated exactly the same. The only difference is that one group is given a placebo (or standard of care) while the other group is given the experimental drug. The people collecting the data do not know which group each subject is in so the results are not biased by the data collection process.
It is fine in the control only. In drug trials the doctors are relationally distanced from the patients or in other words the experiments are double blinded because they were trying to get rid of the problem of placebo in the group getting the drug because through ESP, which is at a premium in relationship, the patients knew that they were given a drug.
In the case of a double blind study, the doctor doesn't even know if the patient was given the experimental drug. The experimental drug and placebo look identical, and they are administered in the exact same way. The labels on the packages do not say if they are placebo or drug.
It is also worth noting that double blinding doesn't always help solve problems. So for instance in drug trials double blinding hasn't solved their problem to better determine the efficacy of a drug because all patients being blinded (ie loss of insight) means that there is a placebo effect now right across the board, in both groups those getting the drug and those getting the blank. Patients reason that they have a 50-50 chance of getting a drug so why not just believe they have been given a drug.
That is the entire point of a double blind study, to determine if the drug does better than the psychosomatic reaction. If the drug group data is equivalent to the placebo group then the conclusion is that the drug is not effective.
Remember patients in drug trials have a desperate need to get well and this is a strong motivating force to make such a choice.
In these types of studies the experimental drug is compared to the standard of care. For example, a new cancer drug will be compared to an already approved and common treatment. It is against the law, and ethics in general, to give a placebo to a patient with a serious disease. However, the doctor does not know which treatment is being administered, and neither does the patient.

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 Message 1 by ANI, posted 10-06-2011 9:17 AM ANI has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 9 of 16 (636480)
10-06-2011 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Theodoric
10-06-2011 6:28 PM


Re: More thoughts
Was there a "desperate need" during testing of viagra?
Funny story. Viagra was originally tested as a heart medication (or maybe high blood pressure, forget which). The experimental groups started reporting a very interesting side effect. You might say that some of the data stuck out. Only then did Pfizer get the idea to sell the drug as an ED treatment.

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 Message 5 by Theodoric, posted 10-06-2011 6:28 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 12 of 16 (636548)
10-07-2011 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Wounded King
10-07-2011 7:51 AM


I find it hard to see how anyone could give ethical consent to take part as an experimenter in a medical trial if they didn't know the hypothesis that was being tested, i.e. what the trial was for or what its purpose was.
This is exactly correct. As part of my own work I have to be trained annually on how to properly run trials that involve human subjects. Part of the consent process is explaining what your hypothesis is, how participation will test the hypothesis, and the potential risks that the subject will be exposed to (including the risk of receiving a placebo) in language that the subject will understand. Subjects are to be treated as a full partner in the scientific process.

This message is a reply to:
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