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Member (Idle past 234 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Studying the supernatural | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
How can we confirm the existence of that which defies study.
Science deals with objective truths. If something is inmaterial how can it be examined? If something is not composed of matter how can it be studied? Yes psycology and social sciences can study ideas and such, but I am speaking about ghost and spirits. There has not been one single shred of physical evidence to suggest such things exist that has not been debunked as clap trap. Dr. Randi even has a standing one million dollar offer for anyone who can produce such evidence.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Strag writes: Yes..and have you heard of dreaming? You experience your dreams do you not? OKthen.
If something is immaterial how can it be experienced at all? Have you heard of the mind body problem? Strag writes: I agree.
If something cannot be experienced how can any concept of it be derived from anywhere but the internal workings of a creative brain? Strag writes: Yes, it seems there are those among us that are privy to experiencing the supernatural. Just watch the show Ghost Hunters. roflmao
Are these ghosts and spirits detectable? If so how? Can they be seen? Touched? Heard? Strag writes: Blink....did you just say "know" Blink...really...you did, didnt you you said the K word.
Science deals with detectable reality. Our investigations into detectable reality show us that humans will invoke "unknowable" beings and then start claiming to know various things about them.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Staggler, I really do not know that I believe they are in fact detecting the supernatural. And neither do you for that matter.
However.....there are those who say big foot exist somewhere in the woods of North America. Is Big Foot supernatural? There are those who say Aliens are making anal probes on human specimens. Are Aliens supernatural? And of course those who say ghost exist, are ghost supernatural? We defined a zillion times on this board what we all say is supernatural. We all agree that a the supernatural is that which exist outside of the laws of this natural universe. Which imo means it does not exist. If ghost exist they are natural imo. We just as of yet do not have a way of explaining them that coincides with what we know up to this point. Or its bull shit. Take your pick.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hello Zen Deist,
Zen Deist writes:
No, because God as I understand him to be described exist OUTSIDE and prevades the universe, in addition to being part of the universe. This would therefore make such a God supernatural. So if god/s exist then they are natural rather than supernatural?Isn't that kind of reverse god-of-the-gaps? In Catholic dogma, God is not only a intrinsic part of the universe but is also separate from it. The universe and all that exist derives it's existence or being from him/it. Reverse "God of the Gaps" to say we cant explain the supernatural yet, but once more comes to light perhaps we can.Like thunder was attributed to Thor and now has a scientific explanation. Yes, if some scientist tomorrow provided scientific evidence to explain ghost, I would no longer call them supernatural.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Straggler writes: Your right, and neither does our current models of cosmology. I think it means we can conclude that when studied scientifically prayer doesn't appear to work.I wont be surprised if CERN discovers a substance called AETHER in the near future.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Straggler writes: So we know something somewhere has to be a bit wrong in our scientific understanding of reality as a whole. Roughly 95 percent of the stuff that makes up our universe is unexplained and inexplicable as of yet. It seems we are living in a age of discovery. Just a week ago the speed limit of the universe it seems has been violated. I bet Mr. Clarke is right: "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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GDR writes: I don't know, QM is pretty strange. Humanity is still sitting in Plato's cave poking at shadows.It is confounding that as much as our scientist are discovering it is causing a cascade of other ever more perplexing questions. How did the universe inflate? did it? Dark Matter/energy, gravatons, Higgs,entanglement, on and on science strips the layers off reality to reveal a even more bizzare foundation. It is almost as if the very properties that make up our reality are elusive because there is no final orgin. No ultimate reality to grasp. like a fractal it is a ever replicating pattern of increasing perplexity. Werner Heisenberg I once read, after experiments confirmed what he called "the uncertainty principal." Walked around in the middle of the night muttering, "reality can not possibly be this strange." What if reality ends up being a 1st person reality game for super intelligent beings. If this is the case how would we ever be able to know.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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ZenDeist writes: When you look at the fine print of the universe (QM level) you see constant shifting and rebuilding. Everything changes from micromoment to micromoment yet appears to stay the same. Quantum foam. There is a story about how one day David Hume was going into a pub and saw a guy sweeping the steps. They got into a discussion about the chaps broom and how wonderful it was that it always did such a great job. The chap explained that he was always replacing the head of the broom and he loved his broom. To which Hume stated that it was not the same broom if he replaced the head. The man then went on to discuss how he also replaced the shaft of the broom the previous year. And yet it was his beloved broom just the same. How unlike this mans broom is anything that exist? What is the same? There is nothing new under the sun we just recycle and reintergrate the materials. Some of the radio active isotopes from Hiroshima reside in us all.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
How do you know that in some other parallel universe Harold Campings predictions were correct?
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Straggler writes: I am not sure. Of course statistically a prophet can be right just out of mere coincidence. ESP is regarded somewhat as supernatural. So if somehow it could be verified scientifically then yes Im sure you would agree that some supernatural claims can be scientifically examined. To date nothing has been shown to be supernatural as there are either naturalist explainations or out right debunked. But more to the point- If there were evidence that Harold Camping (or some other such equivalent) was correct (either in this universe or any other that we can gain evidence of) would that constitute evidence of the supernatural?That does not imo mean SOMETHING outside of our abilities to verify is NOT taking place.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
I'm good with that.
... or remains a mystery. Catholic Scientist writes:
Indeed. Or believe.
sic*Esspecially in light of all that we don't know.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1754 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
straggler writes: If this had happened, indeed we would be in in the middle of the fire and brimstone part of it now, If you only knew what hell awaits you in central Texas. The word drought and hell are daily utterances.
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