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Author Topic:   Born Again
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 376 of 388 (634308)
09-20-2011 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by jaywill
09-20-2011 3:32 PM


Re: Origins of an Idea
It is important each time.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by jaywill, posted 09-20-2011 3:32 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2011 7:46 AM jar has replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 377 of 388 (634382)
09-21-2011 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 376 by jar
09-20-2011 3:33 PM


Re: Origins of an Idea
It is important each time
The first mention was worthless. And every subsequent repetition was of less importance.
What about your proposed attributes of Christ found in John's Gospel which cannot somewhere be found in the synoptics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by jar, posted 09-20-2011 3:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by jar, posted 09-21-2011 8:05 AM jaywill has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 378 of 388 (634390)
09-21-2011 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by jaywill
09-21-2011 7:46 AM


Re: Origins of an Idea
I said that the author of John was a revisionist.
For example in John the reason to perform miracles is to show that Jesus was divine, to impress people while in the synoptics the goal is to help.
The person or persons that wrote John were trying to document a far different picture than we see in Mark, Matthew and Luke.
But the topic, as you seem to have forgotten, is Born Again, and the concept of some one time experience as marketed in many of the chapters of Club Christian simply devalues the process and like the idea of Jesus as some god/man chimera turns it all into nothing but a worthless farce.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2011 7:46 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 12:31 PM jar has replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 379 of 388 (634694)
09-23-2011 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by jar
09-21-2011 8:05 AM


Re: Origins of an Idea
I said that the author of John was a revisionist.
For example in John the reason to perform miracles is to show that Jesus was divine, to impress people while in the synoptics the goal is to help.
The person or persons that wrote John were trying to document a far different picture than we see in Mark, Matthew and Luke.
Wrong again. In the Gospel of Matthew (a synoptic gospel) Jesus reminds the disciples to contemplate the significance of a a couple of miracles He performed. He does so reminding them of the numbers of items involved:
"and Jesus, ... said, Why are you reasoning among yourselves, you of little faith, because you have no bread?
Do you not yet understand nor rememver the five loaves of the five thousand and how many handbaskets you took up?
Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many baskets you took up?
How is it that you do not understand that it was not about bread that I spoke to you? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Then they understood that he did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (Matt.16:8-12)
Apparently the sign which Christ had performed concerning two occasions of miraculously multiplying food had a deeper meaning pointing to His teaching as opposed to that of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Likewise the cursing of the fig tree surely had some deeper dispensational significance:
Matthew 21:18-19; 20-22 and Mark 11:12-14; 20-25.
The rest of your post have probably already had its errors addressed. There is no need to repeat them that discussion.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by jar, posted 09-21-2011 8:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by jar, posted 09-23-2011 12:34 PM jaywill has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 380 of 388 (634697)
09-23-2011 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by jaywill
09-23-2011 12:31 PM


Re: Origins of an Idea
Again, the purpose was not simply to impress people or show divinity even in your example.
And it still has nothing to do with the concept of "Born Again".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 12:31 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 12:40 PM jar has replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 381 of 388 (634699)
09-23-2011 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by jar
09-23-2011 12:34 PM


Re: Origins of an Idea
Again, the purpose was not simply to impress people or show divinity even in your example.
And it still has nothing to do with the concept of "Born Again".
I am very impressed with how someone so dedicated to the topic could also write so many bogus things.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John portray Christ as Son of God and or as God become a man.
Sorry.
And if John is the clearest on the experience of regeneration it proves nothing of changing or revizing into the gospel non-truths of John's own invention.
He emphasizes regeneration. That is all.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by jar, posted 09-23-2011 12:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by jar, posted 09-23-2011 12:42 PM jaywill has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 382 of 388 (634700)
09-23-2011 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by jaywill
09-23-2011 12:40 PM


Re: Origins of an Idea
And yet again, the purpose was not simply to impress people or show divinity even in your example.
And still it still has nothing to do with the concept of "Born Again".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 12:40 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 12:45 PM jar has replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 383 of 388 (634702)
09-23-2011 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by jar
09-23-2011 12:42 PM


Re: Origins of an Idea
And again,
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John portray Christ as Son of God and or as God become a man.
And if John is the clearest on the experience of regeneration it proves nothing of changing or revizing into the gospel non-truths of John's own invention.
He emphasizes regeneration. That is all.
Matthew also calls God the Father of the disciples indicating they are to be related to God in life and nature - His offspring. That amounts to the anticipation of the Born Again experience.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by jar, posted 09-23-2011 12:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by jar, posted 09-23-2011 1:01 PM jaywill has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 384 of 388 (634704)
09-23-2011 1:00 PM


Time for Summations
The limit has been reached. This thread is now closed to debate.
Participants will be given 48 hours to post one summary of their
final position concerning the topic of the debate.
Please do not respond to previous posts and do not respond to summations.
Again, thread will be closing in 48 hours.
AdminPD

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 385 of 388 (634706)
09-23-2011 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by jaywill
09-23-2011 12:45 PM


Summary
Again, it still has NOTHING to do with the topic of Born Again as some one time event.
The idea of being Born Again as some one time miraculous event is simply a cop=out and feel good method to avoid doing the work of actually day by day, moment by moment evaluation of your behavior and trying to do better in the future and make amends for past failures.
It is nothing but another cheap snake oil salesman spiel meant to bring in the customers by telling them that being a Christian is easy.
Edited by jar, : saw APD's post.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 12:45 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by jaywill, posted 09-23-2011 1:36 PM jar has not replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 386 of 388 (634710)
09-23-2011 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by jar
09-23-2011 1:01 PM


Re: Summary
Edited by AdminModulous, : This thread is closed for debate. Please do not respond to previous posts and do not respond to summations. Content hidden.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by jar, posted 09-23-2011 1:01 PM jar has not replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 387 of 388 (634712)
09-23-2011 1:39 PM


Thank you Admin, for closing the discussion.

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 388 of 388 (634999)
09-25-2011 1:24 PM


Thread Closed
The debate has been lively
And the summations read.
If your discussion's unfinished,
Propose a new thread.
Here's to fruitful debating.
AdminPD
Magic Wand

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