|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,927 Year: 4,184/9,624 Month: 1,055/974 Week: 14/368 Day: 14/11 Hour: 2/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Do Christians Worship Different Gods? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Hi jar,
I agree, but I suspect that GDR will feel differently about it. I think that this question might prove a useful exercise though. If the three faiths don't worship the same God, I can't see how the disparate Christian faiths can be said to worship the same God. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Panda writes: Why would it be an odd position, unless you expect god to keep his promises? Why do you expect god to keep his promises? I'm sovereign, I'm demonstrably capable of delivering on my promise, I direct you in the way you should go or else. I'm pointing an AK47 at you and not giving you any reason to suppose that I am anything but serious. Wouldn't it be odd to work on the premise that I wouldn't keep my promise?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by iano, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Jar writes: Genocide is always morally wrong. And if you're not a moral agent (the God I'm marketing isn't) then what?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Then Genocide is still always wrong.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : WarningAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Dr. A writes: How do you know. You say that genocide is "a way God used to achieve his ends." So if I commit genocide, how can you be sure that that isn't a way God is using to achieve his ends? I don't know. Bear in mind that the answer "No then" was an answer to your complete question:
quote: No then. You are not right in concluding you are doing God's will when you commit some abominable crime. You might be, you might not be. Edited by iano, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Jar writes: Then Genocide is still always wrong. In what way if not morally so? Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD iano writes:
Imagine an armed robber pointing an AK47 at you and not giving you any reason to suppose that he is anything but serious. I'm sovereign, I'm demonstrably capable of delivering on my promise, I direct you in the way you should go or else. I'm pointing an AK47 at you and not giving you any reason to suppose that I am anything but serious. Wouldn't it be odd to work on the premise that I wouldn't keep my promise?If he promised that he would not kill you as long as you give him the combination to the safe - do you think he will keep his promise? He is demonstrably capable of delivering on his promise, but do you think he actually will? Why do you think god would keep his promises? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : WarningAlways remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Morally. If the God you market is amoral, that still does not effect my judgement of that God. It is possible that the God you market might be judged to just be psychotic; just another psychopath. Then I would favor giving it help, but as long as it behaves immorally it should be kept away from decent folk. The God you market has been weighed and found wanting. Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin. Edited by AdminPD, : WarningAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Panda writes: Imagine an armed robber pointing an AK47 at you and not giving you any reason to suppose that he is anything but serious. If he promised that he would not kill you as long as you give him the combination to the safe - do you think he will keep his promise?He is demonstrably capable of delivering on his promise, but do you think he actually will? As long as he his not giving me any reason to suppose he is not serious about letting me live if I obey then I'd have reason to think he would keep his promise. He'd also want to be wearing a balaclava or some other way in which I wouldn't be able to recognise him Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Jar writes: Morally. If the God you market is amoral, that still does not effect my judgement of that God. So genocide is "always immoral" because jar says so. More simplistic than simple that. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD The man has become like one of us, to know good and evil. I know good and evil. It's not simplistic. Any God that is so limited that it must resort to Genocide is simply not worthy of my respect or worship and is one that I must oppose. Edited by AdminPD, : WarningAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD iano writes:
Well, that would be very naive. As long as he his not giving me any reason to suppose he is not serious about letting me live if I obey then I'd have reason to think he would keep his promise.A person willing to point a gun at you is likely to do whatever he wants regardless of any promises he made. You don't know what his goals are - your death might suit his needs. You don't know his motivations - maybe he enjoys killing people. The same issues apply to god. Edited by AdminPD, : WarningAlways remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD So genocide is "always immoral" because jar says so. No...genocide is bad because taking the lives of others is bad, mmkay? See, rational people have their own moral compass, usually derived from societal standards. Rational people don't derive their morals from deranged lunatics that use murder and mayhem as a means to get a point across. (the god you are marketing). Basically (as a social animal/species) standards that help bolster the numbers. The more members of a society (to a degree), the better. The fact that you seem to think this sort of character is not only acceptable, but something to be sought after, worshipped and bowed down to, something you want to spend eternity with....says something about yourself. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
|
Granny Magda writes: I went a long way off topic with my last messages, but it has belatedly occurred to me to ask this; do Christians worship the same God as Jews? As Muslims? Do all three Abrahamic faiths worship the same God? Of course I think that this question is as unanswerable as the first, but I think it is worth asking. Just a thought. Great question. It goes back to the question of whether we worship the same God but describe different attributes to Him.As jar said all three worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. So essentially my answer is yes. Christianity is different because of the fact that Jesus is understood as being God incarnate and the Jewish Messiah, but that doesn't have to be barrier to recognizing the one creator God that the three Abrahamic faiths have in common. However the question of God and what he wants of us is consistent, depending how we read the Holy texts. For example my view is quite different than iano's view just as the militant jihadist's view is different than the moderate Muslim, so it depend on who you talk to. This is my take on it. The verse in Micah (6:8), which is in both the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, that I believe constitutes the essential truth of what God wants of all His created beings is that we humbly love kindness and act justly. This is from the Qur'an. Surah 3: 133-134
quote: So if we concentrate on the parts that are consistent within the texts of all 3 faiths we should all be good buds. If we could just focus on the message of love and peace and then have a friendly discussion of our theological positions I believe God would be thrilled. There is no logical reason that this couldn't happen but logic more often than not seems to go out the window.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
|
Great question. It goes back to the question of whether we worship the same God but describe different attributes to Him. As jar said all three worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. So essentially my answer is yes. Then I think you have your answer. If we regard the three Abrahamic faiths (or as a neo-pagan friend of mine calls them the "Three poison shoots from one poison root") as worshipping the same God, then all Christians worship the same God. If we were to say that the three worship different gods, then I think that we would be forced to conclude that the various Christian sects also worship different gods. Of course, as an atheist, I still maintain that each individual worshipper has their own personal god concept.
So if we concentrate on the parts that are consistent within the texts of all 3 faiths we should all be good buds. Yeah, it would seem that way. Or at least, I agree that it should seem that way. In practice though, it doesn't work. There are plenty of nasty bits that are common to all three faiths, mostly (as IamJoseph never tires of pointing out) because the Christian and Muslim faiths are so heavily cribbed from Judaism. The misogyny is there in all three. The tolerance of slavery is there in all three. So is the threat of divine wrath. I think that if you look, you'll find that there are many abhorrent tales and attitudes that are common to all three faiths. I agree that your method seems reasonable, but in practice I think that it fails badly. Mutate and Survive
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024