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Author | Topic: Is agnosticism more intellectually honest? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
First, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, just of a lack of evidence. So I have heard it said; by people who behave as though they are certain of the non-existence of werewolves.
Second, consider Ben Franklin flying his kite in the rain, but without a means to test for the presence of electricity: lightening could strike his kite repeatedly, and yet he would not be able to record the presence (or absence) of electricity, instead he would have an absence of evidence (pro or con). It would be rather simplistic to conclude from such a test that electricity was not present in lightening. That's a different kind of question. For example, since I know that you have a height, but have no information about it, I am agnostic about what that height is; I do not assert that you are not 5'9'' on the basis of the absence of evidence. On the other hand, I am not similarly agnostic on the question of whether you have a pet unicorn. I believe that you do not. This is because the evidence that I am missing is evidence against a well-established rule. Now in the case of Franklin's kite, he knew that electricity existed, he knew that everything contains some quantity (possibly zero) of electricity, and so could be agnostic about what that quantity is in the case of lightning.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Then play devil's advocate. What is the universe is deemed absolutely finite. What? And, indeed, why?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Dr Adequate
And it seems to me not to match what you said. You are welcome to your opinion, however just repeating 'no that's wrong' doesn't accomplish a thing.
But in that case you would find it "logically invalid" to be a 6 on your scale (i.e. to believe that "the non-existence of werewolves is more likely than not"). And? The question is whether your position is opinion or one based on evidence: if you don't have supporting evidence, then it is de facto opinion, and the logical position is 5. If you have supporting evidence then you can go to 6 or 7 (depending on the strength of the evidence). Is there supporting evidence that werewolves (and unicorns) do not exist? Is there is an absence of evidence that would be expected (predicted) if they existed?
Now if you can't bring yourself to put the chance of werewolves existing as lower than 50%, ... So how do I calculate these probabilities? Without knowing all the possibilities you can't calculate probabilities. Can you predict the probabilities for what a di in my hand will land on when I throw it when (a) you don't know how many sides it has and (b) you don't know how it is numbered? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
What if the universe is deemed absolutely finite.
A simple question to break the deadlock of your position. Deflection indicates a refusal to delve further in the issue's examination.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
So do you in fact carry silver at the time of the full moon to ward off werewolves?
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What if the universe is deemed absolutely finite. What does that even mean? Other than it meaning that the universe would no longer exist, do you have any point?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
What if the universe is deemed absolutely finite. Er ... isn't that what you're meant to be telling me? It is you, not I, who thinks he can deduce some theological consequence from the size of the universe.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Its not a theological question. You can feel safe answering it.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi again Dr Adequate
So I have heard it said; by people who behave as though they are certain of the non-existence of werewolves. I repeat:
quote: Is there supporting evidence that werewolves (and unicorns) do not exist? Is there is an absence of evidence that would be expected (predicted) if they existed?
So I have heard it said; by people who behave as though they are certain of the non-existence of werewolves. Why wouldn't having a 5 position be enough to behave as if werewolves did not exist? People behave as if their opinions are valid all the time, whether those opinions are true or not.
That's a different kind of question. Is it?
Now in the case of Franklin's kite, he knew that electricity existed, he knew that everything contains some quantity (possibly zero) of electricity, and so could be agnostic about what that quantity is in the case of lightning. How would he know that if he had no way to detect electricity? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Is there supporting evidence that werewolves (and unicorns) do not exist? Is there is an absence of evidence that would be expected (predicted) if they existed? Well, there's an absence of evidence of werewolves.
Why wouldn't having a 5 position be enough to behave as if werewolves did not exist? Because it doesn't go so far as saying that they probably don't.
Is it? Yes.
How would he know that if he had no way to detect electricity? Well, if he had no evidence at all for the very existence of electricity, then he should certainly have doubted that it was present in lightning just as he should have doubted the presence of groosnarp and fleem. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Its not a theological question. You can feel safe answering it. Safe, yes, capable, no. You ask me what if the universe was finite. But I do not know what conclusion, or even what kind of conclusion, you think can be drawn from that. You, on the other hand, do. So you tell me.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
When you arrive at a brick wall and keep banging on it - you end up in a circular path. The correct way is to allow alternate considerations and see if they fit. However, it seems you are fundamentally in opposition to test your case. So either continue banging your head on the brick wall - or follow the course I suggested as a devil's adquate test.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
When you arrive at a brick wall and keep banging on it - you end up in a circular path. The correct way is to allow alternate considerations and see if they fit. However, it seems you are fundamentally in opposition to test your case. So either continue banging your head on the brick wall - or follow the course I suggested as a devil's adquate test. I cannot follow the course you suggested because you have not in fact suggested a course, or, if you have, you have not done so in any language with which I am familiar.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2724 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined:
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Hi, Dr A.
Dr Adequate writes: If I am unaware that Las Vegas' leading werewolf is called Ronald Q. Shambling, then finding in my front yard a watch with a broken strap and the name Ronald Q. Shambling engraved on the back does not suggest to me that I have been visited by a werewolf. Through my ignorance of werewolves, I have failed to recognize the evidence that is there. If there were werewolves in Las Vegas, don't you think a few things would have been noticed by now? For instance, heightened death tolls and animal-like maulings during full moons, a few eyewitness accounts, people who regularly and inexplicably black out every full moon, etc. Not so for gods: god concepts vary so much that there is no consistent set of evidence like this that would cover the whole spectrum of god concepts. So, I still contend that it would be perfectly consistent for somebody to remain agnostic with respect to gods while not being "agnostic" to werewolves.-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Suit yorself. Your not shit scared, right?
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