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Author Topic:   Is America a Christian Nation?
jar
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 91 of 206 (628382)
08-09-2011 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
08-09-2011 8:28 AM


Re: Has to be content and not source of moral character
Yes, but did you read what you quoted?
You posted "Who are they to claim that we are non theists?"
They made no such claim. It is the "Humanist Manifesto II", and so it applies to "Humanists".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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pandion
Member (Idle past 3261 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


(1)
Message 92 of 206 (628404)
08-09-2011 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Robert Byers
08-09-2011 5:03 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
quote:
America was founded by a puritan /Evangelical protestant English people.
America was settled by Puritan Englishmen (at least Mass.). The Puritan state had nothing to do with the Constitution or the Articles of Confederation. Just as Virginia was settled by businessmen. There is a difference between "founding" and "settling."
quote:
America is christian more then any other nation in human history in passion and results from that in character and intellect and soul.
But it wasn't at the time that this nation was founded. Generous estimates by historians are that somewhere between 10 to 15% of the population actually belonged to a church at the time of the Revolution. Some estimate that after the Revolution church membership fell as low as 5%. After all, the clergy was overwhelmingly Tory and fled in great numbers to England. Less than half of the pre-revolution churches remained after the Revolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Robert Byers, posted 08-09-2011 5:03 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Robert Byers, posted 08-10-2011 1:00 AM pandion has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 93 of 206 (628406)
08-09-2011 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Robert Byers
08-09-2011 5:03 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
America was founded by a puritan /Evangelical protestant English people.
So Maryland was never founded or settled? Maybe you should learn some US history.
It seems you do not count Catholics as Christians. DO you think the west coast and southwest had no one but native americans when the US immigration swept over?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Robert Byers, posted 08-09-2011 5:03 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10304
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 94 of 206 (628446)
08-09-2011 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Robert Byers
08-09-2011 5:03 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
America is christian more then any other nation in human history in passion and results from that in character and intellect and soul.
Talk about a revisionist history. Ever hear of the Holy Roman Empire? When they conquered the Visigoths they gave them two choices: convert to christianity or die. Many chose death. When America invades other countries and converts at the end of a gun then it will top the HRE. Until then, you need to stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking.
The fact of the matter is that christianity is the predominant religion in the US. However, our government was founded as a secular government and continues to be a secular government. We are no more a christian nation than we are a Santa Claus nation or a Bigfoot nation. Our personal beliefs, or lack thereof, have nothing to do with how this country acts as a government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Robert Byers, posted 08-09-2011 5:03 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Robert Byers, posted 08-10-2011 1:05 AM Taq has replied
 Message 100 by 1.61803, posted 08-10-2011 2:36 PM Taq has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


(1)
(3)
Message 95 of 206 (628490)
08-10-2011 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by pandion
08-09-2011 10:43 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
i don't know the church attendingness of the people. Historians usually have other motives and one can't trust them.
Yet I would presume the attendence was small. Evangelicals always were small percentages.
Nevertheless this changes nothing in what i said.
All these non attenders were also profoundly the result of puritanism.
Thats the power of assertive minorities and establishments.
The people were entirely a very protestant people in all presumptions.
Nothing to do with church services.

This message is a reply to:
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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


(2)
Message 96 of 206 (628491)
08-10-2011 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Theodoric
08-09-2011 10:49 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
I explained it as Yankee and Southern.
Its clear what the score was.

This message is a reply to:
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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


(2)
Message 97 of 206 (628492)
08-10-2011 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taq
08-09-2011 3:14 PM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
i clearly said its not in structure a religious nation.
Yet its a very Puritan/Protestant people in heart and soul and mind.
Therefore since the people more then any others in history influence the nation then the nation has been more religious then any others.
Christianity is the great difference between America and the world.
Still is front page news.
The people and not the establishment or indeed structures of government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Taq, posted 08-09-2011 3:14 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 08-10-2011 9:37 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 99 by Taq, posted 08-10-2011 11:58 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 98 of 206 (628543)
08-10-2011 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Robert Byers
08-10-2011 1:05 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
Yet its a very Puritan/Protestant people in heart and soul and mind.
Utter nonsense. In fact the Puritan heart and soul was what almost all of the colonies feared and was a direct cause of the US becoming a secular nation.
Therefore since the people more then any others in history influence the nation then the nation has been more religious then any others.
If the "people" you are referring too are the Puritans, the only influences they had on the Nation were negative, that it was necessary to keep them from gaining any power.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Robert Byers, posted 08-10-2011 1:05 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10304
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 99 of 206 (628555)
08-10-2011 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Robert Byers
08-10-2011 1:05 AM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
Yet its a very Puritan/Protestant people in heart and soul and mind.
With the emmigration of Latinos is has taken on a much stronger Catholic flavor. Also, church attendance has been dropping for quite a while. In my opinion, America is slowly taking on the secular attitudes that many European nations have adopted.
Christianity is the great difference between America and the world.
Hardly. The great differences are our money, resources, and military. Economically and militarily, we are the 900 lb. gorilla (and sometimes act the same). In some ways, the EU is an effort to match US economic strength and an emerging Chinese economy.
Your myopic religious views are blinding you to the larger world and how the US really fits in.

This message is a reply to:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1764 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 100 of 206 (628570)
08-10-2011 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taq
08-09-2011 3:14 PM


Re: Christian Nation Quiz
true dat ! and id further ad that was the reason for the framers wanting to keep religion out of government affairs where at all possible.

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pandion
Member (Idle past 3261 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


(1)
Message 101 of 206 (628590)
08-10-2011 11:35 PM


We have to forgive Robert Byers. He still believes what they taught him in second grade when they told him that the Pilgrims came to this country to establish religious freedom. Not true. They came to be free to practice their religion freely and to impose it on everyone else.
But that aside, Calvin has had more influence on the protestant cults in this country than the Puritans. What is left of the Puritans are now Congregationalists. There are several other christian cults that are Calvinistic in origin, the largest being the Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians. And strict Calvinism never allowed the free practice (or not) of religion.
Edited by pandion, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Robert Byers, posted 08-13-2011 3:56 AM pandion has replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


(7)
Message 102 of 206 (628811)
08-13-2011 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by pandion
08-10-2011 11:35 PM


Puritan was just a word to include bible believing Christians. today the word is Evangelical. Denominations mean nothing in the tribe.
It doesn't matter what peoples immigrated since the old days. tHey all must assimulate into America because of numbers and dominance of the national identity in moral and intellectual ways.
No one ever or ever will add anything or do anything to change the essence of America as a English Puritan Protestant nation. iNcluding the original southerners. they were affected by the north but the north was not affected by them.
The great difference between America and the world (including Britain) is the dominance originally and therefore creation of evangelical civilization on the settlers of Northern America.(Including Anglo Canada) .
Today its the striking difference and the backbone of resistant creationism. unique in the world.
America is the most moral and intelligent people in human history because of the Evangelical motivation save God's blessing.
Every baby born is genetically a Puritan/Evangelical Englishman.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by pandion, posted 08-10-2011 11:35 PM pandion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by bluescat48, posted 08-13-2011 7:47 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 104 by jar, posted 08-13-2011 8:26 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 105 by pandion, posted 09-03-2011 2:35 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 106 by Artemis Entreri, posted 02-13-2012 7:05 PM Robert Byers has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4450 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 103 of 206 (628816)
08-13-2011 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Robert Byers
08-13-2011 3:56 AM


Typical, right out of the Dark Ages. The radical Evangelicals aren't Christian, but Pseudo-Christians. They worship wealth rather than their Jesus and pervert his teachings.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Robert Byers, posted 08-13-2011 3:56 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 104 of 206 (628817)
08-13-2011 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Robert Byers
08-13-2011 3:56 AM


Robert Byers writes:
America is the most moral and intelligent people in human history because of the Evangelical motivation save God's blessing.
Every baby born is genetically a Puritan/Evangelical Englishman.
Amazing.
America is the most moral and intelligent people in human history?
Do you have some evidence to support that assertion?
Every baby born is genetically a Puritan/Evangelical Englishman?
Do you have some evidence to support that assertion?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Robert Byers, posted 08-13-2011 3:56 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
pandion
Member (Idle past 3261 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


(1)
Message 105 of 206 (631776)
09-03-2011 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Robert Byers
08-13-2011 3:56 AM


quote:
iNcluding the original southerners. they were affected by the north but the north was not affected by them.
So, you've never spent any time in the American South! Otherwise you would know that you are talking nonsense. I was born in Illinois, raised in Montana, and lived in California and Massachusetts. I now live in the south and you are delusional.
quote:
Puritan was just a word to include bible believing Christians.
Pure nonsense. The Puritans were the christian cult that settled in the Massachusetts Bay Colony and imposed their religion by law. They rejected the beliefs of the Bible believing Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, etc.
quote:
today the word is Evangelical.
The evangelical cult movement is only about 100 years old.
quote:
Denominations mean nothing in the tribe.
What tribe?
quote:
Every baby born is genetically a Puritan/Evangelical Englishman.
What have you been smoking?
Perhaps it would be a good idea to actually learn about colonial and revolutionary America before you spoke. You only make yourself look foolish otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Robert Byers, posted 08-13-2011 3:56 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
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