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Author Topic:   New York Gay Marriage
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 256 of 284 (627587)
08-02-2011 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Nuggin
08-02-2011 9:07 PM


old joke
This whole thing reminds me of an old joke.
If you bake one cake they don't call you a baker, but suck one cock and....

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Nuggin, posted 08-02-2011 9:07 PM Nuggin has not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 257 of 284 (627588)
08-02-2011 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Modulous
08-02-2011 9:45 PM


Re: moving towards some understanding
I think you might be guilty of hyperbole here, right?
Well, duh. I'm always hyperbolic - except for right then when I wasn't.
Look, you guys took what was a smirking remark to Stranger in response to his smirking remark to me and made it into a battleground.
I don't care if I'm right or wrong on an issue. If I get attacked, I'm going to fight back. The more I get attacked, the more I'm going to fight back especially when people are condescending and snippy (not saying you in particular were).
And this issue in particular wasn't one where there was a "hard fact" to be addressed.
We're not talking about the answer to a math question.
We're talking about the fact that many people in the gay community use the term "gay" to mean many different things. We're talking about the fact that many "bisexuals" simply aren't and admit to as much later on.
These are issues where people should be able to have different opinions and those opinions should not require a certain amount of gay sex to be considered valid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Modulous, posted 08-02-2011 9:45 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Modulous, posted 08-02-2011 10:28 PM Nuggin has replied

Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 258 of 284 (627589)
08-02-2011 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Nuggin
08-02-2011 9:03 PM


Re: moving towards some understanding
Nuggin writes:
Frankly, you are all starting to sound alike. I'm responding to a good 20+ messages in a row all either nitpicking vocab, accusing me of X-pobia, complaining that I don't have enough gay sex, or that I am secretly having a lot of gay sex but ashamed of it.
Welcome to having your own opinion at EvC. This place is all about what you mentioned, though usually you seem to be on the bandwagon with them, accusing me of various things I never said.
That's not including the constant posts asking me to repeat myself.
You are just lucky Dr "could you please repeat that 100 times" Adequate isn’t on.
If you guys hadn't jumped on the "get the straight boy" bandwagon, none of this would have happened at all.
Are there a lot of homos on here?
Like I said before, I left the thread. I got brought back in by (what we now know was a drunk) and you guys jumped in when I dared to defend myself against him.
It usually is a setup around here. YHBT; it’s okay they do it to everyone.
If you guys would just worry about the big picture one time, you'd get something done. Instead, it's endless infighting over meaningless crap.
The Left will eat itself, we just have to wait them out.
No one on the other side of the debate cares if you are bi or gay or trans or whatever. For them it's all "Jesus hates fags!".
And when you stop fighting the "Jesus hates fags!" people to take a swing at someone for not being sensitive enough about "bi-erasure", you just end up making an enemy of an ally.
So what do we end up with? 10 pages of people complaining to an advocate of gay marriage that he's not enough of an advocate.
Meanwhile the anti-gay people remain unopposed.
And laughing their asses off, as left wing lunacy attacks itself.
You were spot on with this one, I knew eventually you come up with something.
If you want to have sex with people the same parts, you're gay. You can be other things too, doesn't make you not gay.
I would say if you are male and the above is the same you a gay, but I am unsure about females.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Nuggin, posted 08-02-2011 9:03 PM Nuggin has not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 259 of 284 (627592)
08-02-2011 10:08 PM


Wow Nuggin. Pretty soon you might have Buzsaw cheerleading for you, too.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(3)
Message 260 of 284 (627595)
08-02-2011 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Nuggin
08-02-2011 9:53 PM


Re: moving towards some understanding
Look, you guys took what was a smirking remark to Stranger in response to his smirking remark to me and made it into a battleground.
You might have felt it was a battleground, but I was being perfectly civil in voicing my dissent of your expressed views. My first post was an attempt to inform you that your view of bisexuals was erroneous presenting myself as evidence of that.
That you maintained those views under continued criticism makes it about more than a smirking remark to Straggler.
I don't care if I'm right or wrong on an issue. If I get attacked, I'm going to fight back.
I didn't attack you. I criticised your expressed views. Which is the point of debating.
Furthermore, the point of trolling is to get angry responses - since you were engaged in trolling, as you admit, then you really have only yourself to blame when things escalate.
We're talking about the fact that many people in the gay community use the term "gay" to mean many different things. We're talking about the fact that many "bisexuals" simply aren't and admit to as much later on.
That is an empirical claim. I concur there are people that claim to be one sexuality but are actually another. On the other hand you took this group of people, that you think constitutes 'many', and painted all bisexuals with it. Further, you took this characterisation of bisexuals and implied it meant all such bisexuals were full of themselves or the like. I felt this was unfair stereotyping. You then had the gall to suggest that expressing my opinion that it was problematic stereotyping was evidence that the stereotyping was accurate.
These are issues where people should be able to have different opinions and those opinions should not require a certain amount of gay sex to be considered valid.
I agree. Do you disagree with my common usage argument though? Even if common usage seems contradictory to you, it's there. If a person says they are gay, this is usually taken to mean they don't find members of the opposite sex to be attractive. If someone were to ask, and I were to be honest, what should I tell them my sexual orientation?
You seem to be saying that the correct answer is "I'm gay but I'm too full of myself to not seek the attention of women by continuing to have sex with them", or "I'm gay but I hate myself so I sleep with women." I'm suggesting 'bisexual'. And I'm suggesting that bisexuals, those who identify as finding both sexes attractive, are not all full of themselves or self hating gays or attention seeking etc

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Nuggin, posted 08-02-2011 9:53 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Nuggin, posted 08-02-2011 10:53 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 261 of 284 (627598)
08-02-2011 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Modulous
08-02-2011 10:28 PM


Re: moving towards some understanding
And I'm suggesting that bisexuals, those who identify as finding both sexes attractive, are not all full of themselves or self hating gays or attention seeking etc
And if you had said that 4 days earlier, there wouldn't have been a problem.
But instead you and Dr A and one or two others jumped on the "straight guys don't get to have an opinion" part of the thread. Coming to the defensive or, or joining sides with, the drunk gay guy who voiced this opinion.
So I fought back because I _always_ fight back when someone makes this sort of a statement.
I shouldn't have to fuck a guy in the ass to have an opinion about whether or not that person has the right to get married.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Modulous, posted 08-02-2011 10:28 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by hooah212002, posted 08-02-2011 11:15 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 263 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-02-2011 11:22 PM Nuggin has replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 262 of 284 (627599)
08-02-2011 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Nuggin
08-02-2011 10:53 PM


Re: moving towards some understanding
"straight guys don't get to have an opinion"
You DO realize that Jaderis has since apologized for saying as much, doing so some 130 posts prior to this, and hasn't posted since, leaving only you saying anything remotley close to this.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Nuggin, posted 08-02-2011 10:53 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Nuggin, posted 08-03-2011 2:34 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 263 of 284 (627600)
08-02-2011 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Nuggin
08-02-2011 10:53 PM


Re: moving towards some understanding
And if you had said that 4 days earlier, there wouldn't have been a problem.
But instead you and Dr A and one or two others jumped on the "straight guys don't get to have an opinion" part of the thread. Coming to the defensive or, or joining sides with, the drunk gay guy who voiced this opinion.
So I fought back because I _always_ fight back when someone makes this sort of a statement.
I shouldn't have to fuck a guy in the ass to have an opinion about whether or not that person has the right to get married.
* sighs deeply *
Modulous writes:
But claiming that bisexuals are homosexuals who have sex with women because they are 'too full of themselves' to limit their options is sometimes known as bisexual erasure.
Not Modulous writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
Dr Adequate writes:
I cannot speak for Jaderis, but to speak for myself I wonder if it has crossed your mind that perhaps your telepathic link with bisexuals is less than perfect?
Not Dr Adequate writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
hooah212002 writes:
My point is: people who claim bi-sexuality are just that: bi-sexual. No more, no less. They enjoy both sexes. Whether it's a phase or not is up to them, but at the time they claim to be bi-sexual, they are bi-sexual.
Not hooah212002 writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
fearandloathing writes:
I guess I am confused to what you really think, is it either your homosexual or not, is this your belief?
If so then you are way off base, human sexuality cannot/should not be limited to only a gay or not view point anymore than it would be correct to say either you are Caucasian or not.
Not fearandloathing writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
cavediver writes:
Utterly bizarre. Perhaps this is how YOU define gay, but I'm fairly sure that the rest of the world doesn't.
Not cavediver writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
Straggler writes:
I don't see how anyone can tell anyone else who they do or don't find sexually attractive. If after years of knowing who you are you say with confidence that you are geuinely attracted to both men and women how the hell can anyone else tell you that you aren't really bisexual?
Not Straggler writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
Trae writes:
If you’re going to apply labels they should be useful. Bisexual tells something about someone’s orientation. Homosexual who sleeps with woman does not convey the same information and is unwieldy. Arguable it doesn’t even describe a bisexual.
Not Trae writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.
You, yourself, on another thread writes:
There is a WIDE range of sexuality out there.
It's not gay/straight. It's not gay/bi/straight.
It's a vast scope.
Not you, yourself, on another thread writes:
Straight guys don't get to have an opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Nuggin, posted 08-02-2011 10:53 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Nuggin, posted 08-03-2011 2:39 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 264 of 284 (627605)
08-03-2011 12:51 AM


Dog pile x2
Boy, talk about a dog pile. All Nuggin did was express an opinion and it has swirled into an attack that is beyond belief.
If he was an admitted gay, no one would be questioning his opinion as they feel he would have a right to it. Instead since he doesn't have experience with being gay or Bi, his opinion is wrong.
How is his opinion deserve so much response? It's not Nuggin who is going off the deep end here, it is everyone else who is taking offense to his (at one point) simple opinion thay Bi-guys are a subset of gays. So what? Why so defensive?
All he is doing now is defending himself from the attack he recieved from simply stating his opinion that he saw as just joining the conversation. All of you would be doing the same thing and are now just instigating because you disagree with him.
Here's an idea. TRY to respect his opinion and im sure he'll respect yours and not feel the need to fend off every attack that comes his way.

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-03-2011 1:04 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 265 of 284 (627607)
08-03-2011 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by bluegenes
08-02-2011 3:11 PM


Re: Closet bisexuals.
bluegenes writes:
Ah! A clue. Perhaps you're an attention seeking closet "gay" who would call himself a bisexual if he wasn't in double denial.
So, you think someone is gay if they give an opinion on gays? After which they get attacked and try to defend themselves you think that's further proof they are in fact gay?
Silly line of reasoning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by bluegenes, posted 08-02-2011 3:11 PM bluegenes has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 266 of 284 (627608)
08-03-2011 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Chuck77
08-03-2011 12:51 AM


Re: Dog pile x2
If he was an admitted gay, no one would be questioning his opinion as they feel he would have a right to it.
You too seem to be lacking in telepathic abilities.
How is his opinion deserve so much response?
Dear me, did a self-confessed troll get a response? Surely that's the objective.
And, as CS has demonstrated, it was not, in fact, his opinion.
It's not Nuggin who is going off the deep end here, it is everyone else who is taking offense to his (at one point) simple opinion thay Bi-guys are a subset of gays.
That was not in fact what he started off saying.
So what? Why so defensive?
If, in plain English, you mean "why disagree with someone who's wrong?" I think that that's a question that answers itself.
Here's an idea. TRY to respect his opinion and im sure he'll respect yours and not feel the need to fend off every attack that comes his way.
What does it mean to "respect" his "opinion"? Do you mean people should have agreed with it? He doesn't agree with it himself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Chuck77, posted 08-03-2011 12:51 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Nuggin, posted 08-03-2011 2:38 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 267 of 284 (627609)
08-03-2011 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Meddle
08-02-2011 7:21 PM


Re: Go back to the start
Malcom writes:
Do you not see how hurtful this could be, and why they may feel the need to speak out to defend themselves from such accusations? In a way you are denying one aspect of their identity, just as politicians legislating against gay rights deny them another aspect of their identity.
Are you a trained expert on gays or Bi men? How the heel can YOU say it's hurtful to people who are subjected to other peoples opinions?
I dount anyone is really "hurt" here buy nuggins opinions, and if they are maybe they should ask themselves why?
If you are walking down the street and see two guys kissing you automatically think they are gay. It just happens. If you see the same guys doing it every night for 5 months you (and everyone else) think they are gay. BUT, they move and you never see them again, and they start dating women now and claim to be bi.
They call themselves bi and I would have said they were gay. It's all perpective and if they want to catagorize themselves as bi fine but they had gay sex so now there not gay because they had sex with a woman? Who knows.
If you know what you are fine, but it's not easy to differenciate the two, and if a straight guy tried to (god forbid) he gets drilled, apperantly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Meddle, posted 08-02-2011 7:21 PM Meddle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by hooah212002, posted 08-03-2011 1:16 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 271 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-03-2011 1:32 AM Chuck77 has not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 268 of 284 (627610)
08-03-2011 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Chuck77
08-03-2011 1:12 AM


Re: Go back to the start
They call themselves bi and I would have said they were gay. It's all perpective and if they want to catagorize themselves as bi fine but they had gay sex so now there not gay because they had sex with a woman? Who knows.
If you know what you are fine, but it's not easy to differenciate the two..
Here's the thing: by you automatically trying to labelm that's the problem. What the fuck do you care what their sexual preference is? If they tell you they are bi, they are bi. if they say they are gay, they're gay. It's no business of yours otherwise. You can *think* a bisexual person is gay all you want, but if they tell you "no, I'm bi", who the hell are YOU to tell them they are gay?

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Chuck77, posted 08-03-2011 1:12 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Chuck77, posted 08-03-2011 1:20 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 275 by Nuggin, posted 08-03-2011 2:44 AM hooah212002 has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 284 (627613)
08-03-2011 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by hooah212002
08-03-2011 1:16 AM


Re: Go back to the start
hooah writes:
who the hell are YOU to tell them they are gay?
You can read right? Here is what I said in fact:
If you know what you are fine, but it's not easy to differenciate the two..
Did you see it this time? Boy, no wonder Nuggin is having such a difficult time, no one can read here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by hooah212002, posted 08-03-2011 1:16 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by hooah212002, posted 08-03-2011 1:22 AM Chuck77 has replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 270 of 284 (627614)
08-03-2011 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Chuck77
08-03-2011 1:20 AM


Re: Go back to the start
Do you know how to read? Perhaps you should go back and re-read the whole thread. Let it sink in this time. When you are done, you can join the discussion.
but it's not easy to differenciate the two..
Your point? It's not hard at all to differenciate someone saying "I'm bisexual" and "I'm gay". They are two completely different sounding words.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Chuck77, posted 08-03-2011 1:20 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Nuggin, posted 08-03-2011 2:46 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 278 by Chuck77, posted 08-03-2011 2:59 AM hooah212002 has replied

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