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Author Topic:   New York Gay Marriage
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 76 of 284 (626842)
07-31-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by hooah212002
07-31-2011 3:53 PM


Re: You don't get it.
I don't see why we need to label anyone at all? I am of the mind that if you must label someones sexuality then if you only have sex and/or feel sexually attracted to your own gender you are gay, if you only prefer the opposite sex then you are hetero, if you could go either way you are bi.
That is probably a little simple maybe when you take into account trans-gendered, cross-dressers ect....

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 3:53 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 4:03 PM fearandloathing has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 77 of 284 (626843)
07-31-2011 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by hooah212002
07-31-2011 3:53 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Why not just refer to them as bi-sexual?
I did. I just pointed out that they are a sub-set of homosexuals and everyone had a sh1t explosion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 3:53 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 4:06 PM Nuggin has replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 78 of 284 (626844)
07-31-2011 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by fearandloathing
07-31-2011 4:00 PM


Re: You don't get it.
I agree. I was only responding to Nuggin in light of this discussion wherein he basically said "bi-sexuals are just gays who also sleep with the opposite sex". No one needs a sexuality "label", IMO, because no one needs to know anyone else's sexuality. It's your business and yours alone.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by fearandloathing, posted 07-31-2011 4:00 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by fearandloathing, posted 07-31-2011 4:09 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 79 of 284 (626845)
07-31-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 4:02 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Why are they not heterosexuals who also enjoy partaking in gay sex? Why are they part of the homosexual subset?
everyone had a sh1t explosion.
No, they are disagreeing with you. You are taking it personally.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:02 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:14 PM hooah212002 has replied

fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 80 of 284 (626847)
07-31-2011 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by hooah212002
07-31-2011 4:03 PM


Re: You don't get it.
I understand your position, and agree, I should've responded to Nug. My only point being it is not such a black and white thing, many shades of grey in there too...along with a rainbow to maybe. Actually the rainbow is a very apt example of differences in sexuality. 3 types of color would never describe it properly.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 4:03 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 81 of 284 (626848)
07-31-2011 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by hooah212002
07-31-2011 4:06 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Why are they not heterosexuals who also enjoy partaking in gay sex? Why are they part of the homosexual subset?
How DARE you claim that bi-sexuals are heterosexuals who have gay sex!
Get him! He doubted the special secret bi-sexual definition! Quick, before he tries to support equality!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 4:06 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 4:46 PM Nuggin has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 82 of 284 (626850)
07-31-2011 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 3:58 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Keep splitting yourself into smaller and smaller groups and you are gonna get left behind by people who don't want to bother having to appease every little bitchy subgroup along the way
Your attitude makes no sense. There are people that find both men and women attractive. These people are called bisexual. Who is going to leave us behind? Who is asking for appeasement? All I am asking is that you don't call me gay when I'm not, and don't call me straight when I'm not. It's hardly a big demand.
It's not like I'm a gay person that acts camp and I insist that I'm not gay but I prefer to be called 'a queen'.
abe: And it's not like the groups can be made smaller and smaller. There are only three possible groups. Those that exclusively like their own sex (gay), people that exclusively like the opposite sex (straight), and those that do find one group exclusively attractive. There are no possible other combinations of human/human sexual attractiveness with regards to the biological sexes.
Sure. They exist. They exist in the same way that vegetarians who eat meat exist.
Then why call them 'homosexuals that are too full of themselves'? It's not like they are making the claim that they are gay while having sex with the opposite sex, like with people that eat meat but call themselves vegetarian.
I find men and women attractive. Am I gay? Am I straight? I submit that I am, by the definitions of gay and straight, neither. That's just the way it is.
By saying that bisexuals exist in the same way that vegetarians who eat meat exist, you are engaged in a biphobic slur by implying that at least one of my sexual attractions is in some way fraudulent.
abe: A vegetarian that eats meat is an omnivore. Are you going to say that omnivores are really vegetarians that are too full of themselves to limit themselves?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:58 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:44 PM Modulous has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 83 of 284 (626854)
07-31-2011 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Modulous
07-31-2011 4:27 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Then why call them 'homosexuals that are too full of themselves'?
Because they tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to explain the particulars of their sexual desires.
If they weren't full of themselves, then it would be "okay I'm gay. I have sex with women sometimes".
By the way, LOTS of gay guys have had sex with women, they don't identify themselves as Bi or "Used to be BI"
The "bi" community seems chock a block with people who want to stop you and say "well, I'm a part of this special group with a special label, because I like this and this and this other thing."
They just can't let it go. Can they?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 4:27 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by fearandloathing, posted 07-31-2011 4:47 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 86 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 4:52 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 87 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 5:04 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 89 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 5:52 PM Nuggin has replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 84 of 284 (626856)
07-31-2011 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 4:14 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Nuggin, I was asking YOU that question since YOU postulated that bi-sexual persons are just gays that happen to sometimes sleep with the opposite sex.
My point is: people who claim bi-sexuality are just that: bi-sexual. No more, no less. They enjoy both sexes. Whether it's a phase or not is up to them, but at the time they claim to be bi-sexual, they are bi-sexual.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:14 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 7:15 PM hooah212002 has replied

fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 85 of 284 (626857)
07-31-2011 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 4:44 PM


Re: You don't get it.
If they weren't full of themselves, then it would be "okay I'm gay. I have sex with women sometimes".
Does this not seem a little over-simplistic to you?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:44 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 7:18 PM fearandloathing has replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 86 of 284 (626858)
07-31-2011 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 4:44 PM


Re: You don't get it.
The "bi" community...
They just can't let it go. Can they?
What large group of bisexual people are you referring to?

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:44 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 7:19 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 87 of 284 (626862)
07-31-2011 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 4:44 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Because they tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to explain the particulars of their sexual desires.
Great, so if we keep silent on the issue that confirms it, and if we try to correct erroneous views, that confirms it? What a pleasant unfalsifiable position you've created there.
If they weren't full of themselves, then it would be "okay I'm gay. I have sex with women sometimes".
But I'm not gay. I find women sexually attractive. Gay people don't. How is it full of myself to say, in one word, that I find myself sexually attracted to both sexes?
By the way, LOTS of gay guys have had sex with women, they don't identify themselves as Bi or "Used to be BI"
That should give you a clue. They don't identify themselves as bi, because they aren't. They only find men sexually attractive.
The "bi" community seems chock a block with people who want to stop you and say "well, I'm a part of this special group with a special label, because I like this and this and this other thing."
It's not about 'special groups' and 'special labels'. I'm not straight, and I'm not gay. If a term has to be used, then neither of those is useful and a new term needs to be devised. In real life I am closeted to almost all but a select group of friends, so I reject the notion that it's about being part of a special group. And it is definitely not a case of never letting it drop, I barely discuss this on this site - I think this might be the fourth time I have mentioned it.
There are three categories of animal: Those that eat animal meat, those that do not eat animal meat, and those that eat both. None of them are 'special' groups. They are just three different behaviours with regards to animal meat.
They just can't let it go. Can they?
You know how homophobes often find people talking to them about homophobia? Biphobes often find that bisexuals try to correct their view when people call them gays that are full of themselves, or gays that want to have their cake and eat it, indecisive gays, confused straights etc.
People that accept the existence of bisexuals tend not to find many bisexuals that are particularly interested in insisting bisexuality exists.
But if you want me to drop correcting your erroneous views, you have merely to stop airing them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:44 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 7:27 PM Modulous has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 88 of 284 (626866)
07-31-2011 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 3:55 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Stop bitching to the people who are supporting you.
Pretending I don't exist isn't support.
During the civil rights movement, you didn't see a bunch of "half blacks" complaining about "half black" rights. You didn't see yet another groups of "1/4 blacks" complaining about "1/4 black rights". Nor "1/8ths".
You didn't have the 1/4 blacks attacking the supporters of civil rights because those supporters weren't taking special care to say: "There shouldn't be segregation between black and white, AND ALSO there shouldn't be segregation between 1/4 blacks and whites".
You didn't have anyone denying the existence of mixed-race people either. Maybe they weren't stark raving mad.
When your special interest group gets so full of itself that it starts attacking supporters instead of opposition, you end up getting exactly what you deserve. Nothing.
OK, if I claim to exist I get nothing and I deserve it. What do I get if I claim not to exist? This had better involve either money, alcohol, or bacon.
So, instead of fighting for gay rights, you are now asking people to fight for gay AND bisexual rights.
Actually, I ask them to fight for lesbian rights and hope none of those so-called "gay men" splinter the unity of the movement.
Back in the world of non-sarcasm, I note that in arguing for gay rights on these forums, I have made 29 posts using the word "gay", 5 using the word "homosexual", and (apart from this thread) exactly one post using the word "bisexual", while describing the home life of Alexander the Great.
But that's not enough. I also have to not mention the existence of bisexuals in reply to posts talking smack about bisexuals.
If you just stuck to "straight sex" vs "everything else" and said "everything else gets rights too", you would already be done.
Hoorah, I'm already done. Maybe as a kinda victory lap I'll assert that bisexuals exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:55 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 7:31 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 89 of 284 (626868)
07-31-2011 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 4:44 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Because they tend to spend an awful lot of time trying to explain the particulars of their sexual desires.
You started "explaining the particulars of their sexual desires". You're still doing it. Does being completely wrong mitigate the offense?
If they weren't full of themselves, then it would be "okay I'm gay. I have sex with women sometimes".
If you weren't full of yourself, it would be "okay I'm a gigantic horse's ass".
The "bi" community seems chock a block with people who want to stop you and say "well, I'm a part of this special group with a special label, because I like this and this and this other thing."
They just can't let it go. Can they?
Apparently they don't even feel the need to mention it until you start telling offensive lies about them. So if you're tired of seeing accurate definitions of the word "bisexual" you can avoid doing that and dictionaries and all your troubles will be over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:44 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 7:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 90 of 284 (626870)
07-31-2011 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dr Adequate
07-26-2011 2:51 AM


Re: You don't get it.
While this is a hot potato, not so fast applies in pointing the finger wrongly. There is chaos and confusion when quoting the Hebrew bible in this matter. Surprisingly, the Bible is correct here. Gay is not a moral or ethical issue - it is purely an existential issue for humanity. If 20% of the pop goes gay humanity will not survive after a few generations. This factor is thus more problematic than incest, for example, and becomes a humanitarian issue resting heavily on both gay and hetros, impacting both sector's existance rights, testing both.
The other problem is there is no way gay can be sanctioned and incest not; both rely on the same criteria of acceptable mutual consent. It opens a future of someone being ex-comminicated for not attending a marraige or child birth celebration of a 50 year man and his 25 year biological daughter.
The laws must go with the majority, namely the broader community rights; the minority rights are sustained by accomodation and tolerance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-26-2011 2:51 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

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