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Author Topic:   New York Gay Marriage
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 61 of 284 (626608)
07-30-2011 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Jaderis
07-30-2011 7:25 AM


Re: You don't get it.
Blech....and who are you to say?
I'm a US citizen with voting rights.
I'm also, APPARENTLY, the only one in this conversation who knows how to use the quote function.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Jaderis, posted 07-30-2011 7:25 AM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Jaderis, posted 08-01-2011 3:52 AM Nuggin has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 62 of 284 (626802)
07-31-2011 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Nuggin
07-30-2011 11:29 AM


Re: You don't get it.
Yeah, that's BRILLIANT. Attack the one guy who's supporting gay rights by complaining that he is "pigeon holing" guys who have gay sex as gay.
Actually, you are not the one guy who is sticking up for gay rights. Lots of people are doing that. You are the one guy saying stuff like this, which Jaderis has called you on:
Bi-sexuals are homosexuals who also still have sex with women.
Bi guys are just gay guys who are too into themselves to limit the number of people who will give them attention
I cannot speak for Jaderis, but to speak for myself I wonder if it has crossed your mind that perhaps your telepathic link with bisexuals is less than perfect?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Nuggin, posted 07-30-2011 11:29 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 12:40 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 63 of 284 (626805)
07-31-2011 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Dr Adequate
07-31-2011 11:47 AM


Re: You don't get it.
Are you claiming that bi-sexuals don't have sex with women? It's sort of the whole point of the "bi" part in "bi-sexual".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 11:47 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 1:12 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 65 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 1:14 PM Nuggin has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 64 of 284 (626807)
07-31-2011 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 12:40 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Are you claiming that bi-sexuals don't have sex with women?
No, that is not what I was claiming. You can kinda tell that by the way I didn't claim it.
Of course, some bisexuals do not in fact have sex with women: for example, those who are teenagers and have not yet got lucky. But that was not of course my point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 12:40 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 1:20 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 65 of 284 (626808)
07-31-2011 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 12:40 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Are you claiming that bi-sexuals don't have sex with women? It's sort of the whole point of the "bi" part in "bi-sexual".
No.
But claiming that bisexuals are homosexuals who have sex with women because they are 'too full of themselves' to limit their options is sometimes known as bisexual erasure. I'd characterise it as biphobia of a similar magnitude that saying that lesbians are straight women that just need a good rogering.
As someone that enjoys gay porn, straight porn and bisexual porn, as someone who has been in a straight relationship faithfully for 10 years, as someone that enjoys the feel of an erect cock as much as I enjoy a good pair of tits - I do find your understanding of bisexuality to be a little myopic.
You might be standing up for 'gay rights', but you're talking shit about bisexuals, which is I believe what Dr A. was calling you out on.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 12:40 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 1:28 PM Modulous has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 66 of 284 (626811)
07-31-2011 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Dr Adequate
07-31-2011 1:12 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Of course, some bisexuals do not in fact have sex with women: for example, those who are teenagers and have not yet got lucky. But that was not of course my point.
Yes and some heterosexual children have never had sex with anyone for nearly a decade! OMGBBQ
Obviously we aren't going to compare and contrast the sex lives of children as some sort of determining agent.
No, that is not what I was claiming. You can kinda tell that by the way I didn't claim it.
Well, you objected to my description of bi-sexuals are homosexuals who additionally have sex with women. Yet, you are acknowledging that they do have sex with women.
So, are you arguing that bi-sexuals don't have sex with men?
Or are you willing to concede that bi-sexuals have sex with both men and women?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 1:12 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 1:31 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 67 of 284 (626814)
07-31-2011 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Modulous
07-31-2011 1:14 PM


Re: You don't get it.
But claiming that bisexuals are homosexuals who have sex with women because they are 'too full of themselves' to limit their options is sometimes known as bisexual erasure. I'd characterise it as biphobia of a similar magnitude that saying that lesbians are straight women that just need a good rogering.
First off, I agree that Erasure is a band which largely appeals to bi-sexuals.
Secondly, if one group wants to isolate themselves from the whole then they run the risk of being ignored.
If the Branch Davidians don't want to be known as "Protestant" as opposed to "Catholic", but rather want to be classified as their own group, then they end up with less voice and less power.
What's next? Will bi-sexuals split into three different groups?
bi-sexuals who strictly have straight sex and never gay sex but still want to be called bi-sexual.
bi sexuals who strictly have gay sex and never straight sex but still want to be called bi-sexual.
bi-sexuals who actually engage in sex with both groups
Why not split further and be "bi-sexuals who have sex more often with men" vs "bi-sexuals who have sex more often with women" vs "bi-sexuals we are absolutely even"
Then why not split even further, to "bi sexuals who have sex with men but want to have more sex with women only they don't like the girls they have been meeting and does anyone know anyone they can be introduced to" vs the "bisexuals who have met plenty of nice women but who refuse to date anyone who's not Jewish"
The more you split your special interest, the less interest anyone is going to pay to your group because no one thinks you're all that special.
As someone that enjoys gay porn, straight porn and bisexual porn, as someone who has been in a straight relationship faithfully for 10 years, as someone that enjoys the feel of an erect cock as much as I enjoy a good pair of tits - I do find your understanding of bisexuality to be a little myopic.
Bi-sexuality could use a good does of myopithism (dips if that's not already a word).
Stop trying to re-label every single individual, get behind a single cause and work as a team.
In fighting is what has kept social issues down for the entire history of the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 1:14 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 1:45 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 70 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 2:15 PM Nuggin has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 68 of 284 (626815)
07-31-2011 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 1:20 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Yes and some heterosexual children have never had sex with anyone for nearly a decade! OMGBBQ
Obviously we aren't going to compare and contrast the sex lives of children as some sort of determining agent.
You know how I said: "But that was not of course my point"?
Well, you objected to my description of bi-sexuals are homosexuals who additionally have sex with women. Yet, you are acknowledging that they do have sex with women.
So, are you arguing that bi-sexuals don't have sex with men?
Or are you willing to concede that bi-sexuals have sex with both men and women?
Golly, you do know how to miss a point, don't you?
Would you like to switch to the creationist side? You might be more comfortable there, and your style of reasoning (and I use the term "reasoning" loosely) would be much more acceptable to your new friends.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 1:20 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:49 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 69 of 284 (626816)
07-31-2011 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 1:28 PM


Re: You don't get it.
If the Branch Davidians don't want to be known as "Protestant" as opposed to "Catholic", but rather want to be classified as their own group, then they end up with less voice and less power [...] The more you split your special interest, the less interest anyone is going to pay to your group because no one thinks you're all that special. [...] Stop trying to re-label every single individual, get behind a single cause and work as a team.
Your analogy of religion is an excellent one. Let's run with it. Let's suppose that you said: "Whatever Protestants say, in their hearts they acknowledge the supremacy of the Pope. Christians should stop splitting their special interest, get behind a single cause and work as a team."
The rock on which your suggestion founders is that some Christians are actually not Roman Catholics, and also bisexuals are really not homosexual. They are bisexual. Any program you have in mind is going to have to deal with that, even if it would be more convenient if this was not the case.
What's next? Will bi-sexuals split into three different groups?
Gay men can also be split into groups, that's why the hanky code exists. People like different things. If this is really an obstacle to social reform, then it is one that we must figure out a way to overcome. But I thought that the existence of diversity was the whole point. If we have to have unity before we can have tolerance of diversity, then can't we all agree that we're heterosexual? Then we could fight for a single clearly-defined cause.
The more you split your special interest, the less interest anyone is going to pay to your group because no one thinks you're all that special.
Then before you start hectoring bisexuals, you should deal with the larger problem, namely all the gay men who won't admit that they're lesbians.
Remember, as a wise man said: "The more you split your special interest, the less interest anyone is going to pay to your group because no one thinks you're all that special."
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 1:28 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 70 of 284 (626821)
07-31-2011 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 1:28 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Secondly, if one group wants to isolate themselves from the whole then they run the risk of being ignored.
I have no idea what you think this means. Are you suggesting that bisexuals want to 'isolate' themselves from some group? Is that like how gays want to isolate themselves from heteros?
If the Branch Davidians don't want to be known as "Protestant" as opposed to "Catholic", but rather want to be classified as their own group, then they end up with less voice and less power.
So?
What's next? Will bi-sexuals split into three different groups?
No.
bi-sexuals who strictly have straight sex and never gay sex but still want to be called bi-sexual.
bi sexuals who strictly have gay sex and never straight sex but still want to be called bi-sexual.
bi-sexuals who actually engage in sex with both groups
How about, if you find guys and girls to be attractive you are bisexual. It's not really very complicated.
Why not split further and be "bi-sexuals who have sex more often with men" vs "bi-sexuals who have sex more often with women" vs "bi-sexuals we are absolutely even"
Bisexuals do this. But they are still bisexuals. Because they like men and women to varying degrees (which may even vary through time).
Do you get all huffy about sadomasochists? Do they like to cause pain 10% and receive it 90%? When will the schisms end? Oh what a calamity! What about people's taste in music. Do we have to worry about people that like Mozart and Beethoven to approximately equal measure?
The more you split your special interest, the less interest anyone is going to pay to your group because no one thinks you're all that special.
OK. But what about people that find men and women attractive. Are they just gays, as you claim, who are 'too full of themselves' or are they better classified as bisexuals?
Are you saying that
Lesbian/gay/bi/transexual/transvestite/transgender are far too many categories of sexualities for nuggin's noggin to grasp?
Stop trying to re-label every single individual, get behind a single cause and work as a team.
Who am I trying to relabel? Which team am I on?
In fighting is what has kept social issues down for the entire history of the world.
Then might I suggest you don't accuse bisexuals of being 'too full of themselves' and call them 'homosexuals'. How about you simply acknowledge that such people actually exist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 1:28 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:58 PM Modulous has replied
 Message 75 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:59 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 71 of 284 (626836)
07-31-2011 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Dr Adequate
07-31-2011 1:31 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Golly, you do know how to miss a point, don't you?
Well, I admit, I've having a lot of trouble following you.
You seem to be complaining that I referred to bi-sexuals are homosexuals who also have sex with women. Yet, you admit that they do in fact have sex with women. You also admit that they have homosexual sex.
Would you be happier if we referred to bi-sexuals as heterosexuals who aren't heterosexual?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 1:31 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by hooah212002, posted 07-31-2011 3:53 PM Nuggin has replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 72 of 284 (626837)
07-31-2011 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Nuggin
07-31-2011 3:49 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Would you be happier if we referred to bi-sexuals as heterosexuals who aren't heterosexual?
Why not just refer to them as bi-sexual?

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 3:49 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by fearandloathing, posted 07-31-2011 4:00 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 77 by Nuggin, posted 07-31-2011 4:02 PM hooah212002 has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 73 of 284 (626839)
07-31-2011 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Dr Adequate
07-31-2011 1:45 PM


Re: You don't get it.
If this is really an obstacle to social reform, then it is one that we must figure out a way to overcome. But I thought that the existence of diversity was the whole point.
Here's how you overcome it.
Stop bitching to the people who are supporting you. Stop complaining that you aren't getting a special label all for yourself.
During the civil rights movement, you didn't see a bunch of "half blacks" complaining about "half black" rights. You didn't see yet another groups of "1/4 blacks" complaining about "1/4 black rights". Nor "1/8ths".
You didn't have the 1/4 blacks attacking the supporters of civil rights because those supporters weren't taking special care to say: "There shouldn't be segregation between black and white, AND ALSO there shouldn't be segregation between 1/4 blacks and whites".
When your special interest group gets so full of itself that it starts attacking supporters instead of opposition, you end up getting exactly what you deserve. Nothing.
So, instead of fighting for gay rights, you are now asking people to fight for gay AND bisexual rights.
Giving people option of supporting one and rejecting the other.
If you just stuck to "straight sex" vs "everything else" and said "everything else gets rights too", you would already be done.
Instead you've got to split hairs and then split them again, and again and again and further and further, until anyone who is trying to support anything gets so fed up with the bullshit they walk away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 1:45 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2011 5:47 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 91 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 6:32 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 74 of 284 (626840)
07-31-2011 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Modulous
07-31-2011 2:15 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Do you get all huffy about sadomasochists? Do they like to cause pain 10% and receive it 90%?
I will when I come out in support of their life style only to be bitched at by the "sado's" who don't want to be lumped in with the "sadomasochists" because they choose to be SLIGHTLY different and therefore want special treatment.
Notice NO ONE is fighting for Bi-Sexual marriage. There's NO SUCH THING.
Keep splitting yourself into smaller and smaller groups and you are gonna get left behind by people who don't want to bother having to appease every little bitchy subgroup along the way

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 2:15 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 4:27 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 75 of 284 (626841)
07-31-2011 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Modulous
07-31-2011 2:15 PM


Re: You don't get it.
Then might I suggest you don't accuse bisexuals of being 'too full of themselves' and call them 'homosexuals'. How about you simply acknowledge that such people actually exist?
Sure. They exist. They exist in the same way that vegetarians who eat meat exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Modulous, posted 07-31-2011 2:15 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

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