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Author Topic:   Definition of Species
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 385 of 450 (625589)
07-24-2011 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Big_Al35
07-24-2011 6:52 AM


Re: No pesudogenisation? Are you sure?
Interestingly, both of your new sources have the same author as the original link you provided, Ajit Varki. The PNAS article does provide an original citation for the claim and it is another paper on which Ajit Varki was an author (Angata et al., 2004).
Bearing in mind that the original paper used a human genome build from 2003 it is likely that more recent builds have improved the coverage in the region. In fact if you go to the UCSC site then you can see this by comparing the 2003 build with the more recent 2009 one between the SIGLEC10 and SIGLEC8 loci ( On the 2003 build this is chr19:56,612,450-56,647,230 and for the 2009 build it is chr19:51,920,751-51,955,107). In the earlier build there is a gap in the homology track for chimp of around 2kb (2000 nucelotides) which seems to be the putative deletion from the 2004 paper.
So perhaps Ajit Varki and his co-authors just haven't reanalysed their data with the more recent builds, have missed the more recent work and are still referencing the older research. The current data however seems to indicate that there is no such deletion and that rather there has indeed been some sort of pseudogenisation.
TTFN,
WK
Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Big_Al35, posted 07-24-2011 6:52 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 386 of 450 (625590)
07-24-2011 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by IamJoseph
07-24-2011 7:24 AM


Re: DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE.
I'll take that as a no to my request to make a coherent argument.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2011 7:24 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


(1)
Message 428 of 450 (625775)
07-25-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Mazzy
07-25-2011 4:35 PM


Limits to variation
It is just that the ancestors were created as their kind and variation is limited. Here is some evidence to back this up. The link below speaks to an organism ceasing to adapt while mutations continue to accrue.
That is an interesting article, but I fail to see how it supports your point. OK, if we stipulate that all modern species are close to their optimum of adaptation and that when the original kind ancestors were created, or got off the Ark, they were very sub-optimally adapted for a wide variety of environments then there is some framework for how this could apply. But there isn't a single shred of evidence supporting such a narrative, and whole lot that contradicts it, such as the genetic commonalities across supposedly discretely created kinds.
But as to it showing that variation is limited, it doesn't, at best it shows that there are limits to adaptive variation in a long term multi generation stable environment.
Many even believe a chimp and human may reproduce viable offspring or sterile offspring. If this is the case then I guess one is also proposing speciation has not fully occured.
If the offspring were sterile then this would be full speciation under the biological species concept as it would be an absolute barrier to gene flow between the two populations.
TTFN,
WK
Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Mazzy, posted 07-25-2011 4:35 PM Mazzy has not replied

  
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