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Author Topic:   Another example of right wing evil
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 136 of 247 (623018)
07-07-2011 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by New Cat's Eye
07-07-2011 3:59 PM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
Look nobody sane is advocating that 7 year olds get taught about gay sexual pratices any more than anyone is advocating that we teach 7 year olds about hetero blow jobs, 69ers, spanking fetishes or anything else of that nature. Concerns about teaching little kids such things are an unwarranted smokescreen for the real reason for this law. The real reason being disapproval (to the point of prejudice in many cases) of homosexuality.
Bottom line - If the law makes life harder for a gay kid in Tennessee than it already is, by promoting the idea in law that homosexuality is something that should be repressed as somehow wrong then - In my view - It is a shit law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-07-2011 3:59 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-07-2011 8:20 PM Straggler has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 137 of 247 (623031)
07-07-2011 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Taz
07-07-2011 1:56 PM


Re: There were Greeks before too?
If you think it is an integral part then you are a revisionist.
you are going to have to link me some research or your validity is just as good as mine is without data, and we can sit here and talk smack back and forth all day.
Or how about this. Are you aware or are you not aware that Martin Luther King Jr.'s right hand man in organization was an out the closet gay man? Try to guess what his name was. Conservatives at the time tried to stamp out the civil right movement by trying to stir up the homophobia within the black community. Surely, you've at least heard about this. Or is this not important enough to be covered in your American History class?
American history really isn't my thing, never heard that story before.
Oh snap you brought up something that I didn't know, that must mean all kinds of random shit for various people do read into make things up to say about me. LOL
this place is like the playground.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Taz, posted 07-07-2011 1:56 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2011 1:03 AM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 141 by Taz, posted 07-08-2011 1:53 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 138 of 247 (623032)
07-07-2011 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Straggler
07-07-2011 6:42 PM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
Straggler writes:
Look nobody sane is advocating that 7 year olds get taught about gay sexual pratices any more than anyone is advocating that we teach 7 year olds about hetero blow jobs, 69ers, spanking fetishes or anything else of that nature. Concerns about teaching little kids such things are an unwarranted smokescreen for the real reason for this law. The real reason being disapproval (to the point of prejudice in many cases) of homosexuality.
Bottom line - If the law makes life harder for a gay kid in Tennessee than it already is, by promoting the idea in law that homosexuality is something that should be repressed as somehow wrong then - In my view - It is a shit law.
Look nobody is advocating, that homosexual children are ignored and mistreated, and not given the guidance and information they need. Concerns about homosexual children being mistreated are unwarranted, and is a smokescreen for the real reason of opposition to this legislation. The real reason of disapproval of this legislation (to the point of partisan prejudice) is because its a conservative legislation.
Bottom line - If conservatives can be taken out of context, and made to look like homophobics, because they support self-determination - then its a shit opinion.
sorry I edited your message a bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Straggler, posted 07-07-2011 6:42 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 144 by Straggler, posted 07-08-2011 8:54 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 139 of 247 (623034)
07-07-2011 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Artemis Entreri
07-07-2011 8:20 PM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
Look nobody is advocating, that homosexual children are ignored
Actually that is literally what this law is advocating.
If conservatives can be taken out of context, and made to look like homophobics
BUTT FUCKING
I notice that a day later you've found it impossible to find ANY context for your attempt to paint this as an issue about protecting seven year olds from BUTT FUCKING.
Exactly how are we taking you out of context?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-07-2011 8:20 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 140 of 247 (623063)
07-08-2011 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Artemis Entreri
07-07-2011 8:11 PM


Classical Homosexuality
If you think it is an integral part then you are a revisionist.
Let's hear from some of those revisionists, shall we? Revisionists like Aristotle, Plutarch, Xenophon ...
Xenophon mentions the varying attitudes to homosexuality in the various Greek nations:
It seems to me that something must also be said about the love of boys; for this too has a bearing on education. The other Greeks either do as the Boeotians do, where man and boy are joined as couples and live together, or like the Eleans, who get to enjoy the charms of boys by making them grateful; there are also those who wholly prevent boy-lovers from conversing with boys. [...] In most of the Greek cities, the laws do not oppose mens' desire for boys. (Xenophon, Constitution of the Lacedaemonians)
Plutarch attributes Theban homosexuality to "deliberate policies" by the lawgivers:
The Thebans’ practice of intimacy with lovers, to speak more generally, did not have its origin, as the poets say, in the passion of Laius. Rather the practice grew out of deliberate policies which the lawgivers adopted in order to temper and soften the Thebans’ fiery and violent nature right from childhood. (Plutarch, Life of Pelopidas)
Aristotle attributes homosexuality in Crete to the founder of their constitution:
The lawgiver gave much thought to the benefits of moderation in eating and also to the isolation of women, so that they not have many children. To this end he devised intercourse with males. (Aristotle, The Politics 2.10)
Ephorus of Cyme discusses the unique Cretan practice of ritual mock-abduction:
They have a unique custom with regard to love affairs. For they do not win their boy-friends through persuasion, but through abduction. The lover warns the boy's friends and family three or more days in advance that he is going to carry out the abduction. It is most shameful for them to hide the boy or not allow him to travel the appointed road, as this is viewed as a confession that the boy is unworthy of such a lover. When they meet him, if the abductor is a man equal to or surpassing the social standing, and all else, of the boy, they only fight and pursue him a bit, enough to fulfill what is customary, and after that they turn the boy over and enjoy the occasion. [...] For those who are good-looking and from illustrious families it is a disgrace not to get a lover, since it is assumed that they suffer this because of their manner of living. (Ephorus of Cyme, quoted in Strabo's Geography)
Athaneus discusses why homosexuality was "fashionable" in the "cities with the best laws":
And many men, overall, prefer love with boys to love with females. In the very cities of Greece that have the best laws by comparison with others, this is the mode of behavior that is fashionable. [...] Hieronymus the Aristotelian says that love with boys was fashionable because several tyrannies had been overturned by young men in their prime, joined together as comrades in mutual sympathy. In his boy-friend’s presence, a lover would go through any suffering rather than have the boy think him a coward. This was demonstrated in practice by the Sacred Band, formed by Epaminondas at Thebes; by the Peisistratid assassination, the work of Harmodius and Aristogeiton; and at Acragas in Sicily by the story of Chariton and Melanippus. (Athenaeus, The Deipnosophists)
Plutarch on Spartan customs (note the rare reference to lesbianism):
Lovers shared in the reputation of their boyfriends, whether good or bad. And it is said that once, when a boy uttered a dishonorable sound in battle, his lover was fined by the magistrates. Love was so esteemed among them that girls also became the erotic objects of noble women. But rivalries were not permitted: rather men who had fallen in love with the same boys made it an opportunity to forge a friendship amongst themselves, and they continued to work together to make their beloved the best he could be. (Plutarch, Lycurgus)
More Plutarch:
And among you Thebans, Pemptides, is it not usual for the lover to give his boy-love a complete suit of armor when he is enrolled among the men? [...] And not only are the most warlike nations most amorous, as the Boeotians the Lacedaemonians and the Cretans, but also of the old heroes, who were more amorous than Meleager, Achilles, Aristomenes, Cimon, and Epaminondas. Why, Epaminondas had as his boy-loves Asopichus and Cephisodorus, the latter of whom fell with him at Mantinea, and is buried near him. (Plutarch, On Love)
Plato in his Republic famously argued for an all-gay military:
And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonor, and emulating one another in honor; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger? (Plato, The Republic)
Plato's writing is said to be the inspiration for the Sacred Band of Thebes, which, by defeating the Spartans at Leuctra, laid the basis for Theban military dominance. Here's Plutarch on the Sacred Band:
A pleasant saying of Pammenes is current, that Homer's Nestor was not well skilled in ordering an army, when he advised the Greeks to rank tribe and tribe, and family and family together, that: "So tribe might tribe, and kinsmen kinsmen aid," but that he should have joined lovers and their beloved. For men of the same tribe or family little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers, ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another. Nor can that be wondered at since they have more regard for their absent lovers than for others present; as in the instance of the man who, when his enemy was going to kill him, earnestly requested him to run him through the breast, that his lover might not blush to see him wounded in the back. It is a tradition likewise that Iolaus, who assisted Hercules in his labors and fought at his side, was beloved of him; and Aristotle observes that, even in his time, lovers plighted their faith at Iolaus's tomb. It is likely, therefore, that this band was called sacred on this account; as Plato calls a lover a divine friend. It is stated that it was never beaten till the battle at Chaeronea: and when Philip, after the fight, took a view of the slain, and came to the place where the three hundred that fought his phalanx lay dead together, he wondered, and understanding that it was the band of lovers, he shed tears and said, "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything that was base." (Plutarch, Pelopidas)
With all these revisionist primary sources for Greek history misrepresenting the issue, it's lucky we have an expert like you to tell us what was really going on two millennia ago. Otherwise we might get all confused.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-07-2011 8:11 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2011 8:01 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 141 of 247 (623077)
07-08-2011 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Artemis Entreri
07-07-2011 8:11 PM


Re: There were Greeks before too?
Which part of history did you focus on? Let's start from there. Like I said, even though I work in science now, I am passionate about history... western and eastern.
Ae writes:
American history really isn't my thing, never heard that story before.
its not just a story. Goodness, let me guess, you don't care about the civil right movement because it doesn't concern you? Very tea party attitude. Likes to wave around your credentials and the constitution but doesn't know shit about history or the constitution. King's rallies almost didn't work because of the conservatives taking advantage of internal homophobia. In fact, because of black people's homophobic attitude, most people have forgotten the important roles the gay community played during the civil rights era.
Were you sober enough to learn anything in your history major researches?
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-07-2011 8:11 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2011 7:33 AM Taz has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 142 of 247 (623107)
07-08-2011 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Taz
07-08-2011 1:53 AM


Re: There were Greeks before too?
Which part of history did you focus on? Let's start from there. Like I said, even though I work in science now, I am passionate about history... western and eastern.
1st I started with South West Asian History, and then I moved on to Colonial West Africa. Unfortunately I can only read English, so my perspective is limited.
its not just a story. Goodness, let me guess, you don't care about the civil right movement because it doesn't concern you?
no that is not the reason at all, but I know you are a fan of assumptions.
Were you sober enough to learn anything in your history major researches?
Maybe, I was pretty fucking stoned all through college. I work in Science now, history was just for fun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Taz, posted 07-08-2011 1:53 AM Taz has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 143 of 247 (623109)
07-08-2011 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Dr Adequate
07-08-2011 1:03 AM


Classical Homosexuality = Classical Peodophilia
Xenophon mentions the varying attitudes to homosexuality in the various Greek nations:
It seems to me that something must also be said about the love of boys; for this too has a bearing on education. The other Greeks either do as the Boeotians do, where man and boy are joined as couples and live together, or like the Eleans, who get to enjoy the charms of boys by making them grateful; there are also those who wholly prevent boy-lovers from conversing with boys. [...] In most of the Greek cities, the laws do not oppose mens' desire for boys. (Xenophon, Constitution of the Lacedaemonians)
Men and boys!?! Sounds like pedophiles rather than homosexuals. They make a clear distinction between men and boys the whole time. Are somehow claiming the Greek example as reason that homosexuals are pedophiles? Sounded like an advert for NAMBLA.
With all these revisionist primary sources for Greek history misrepresenting the issue, it's lucky we have an expert like you to tell us what was really going on two millennia ago. Otherwise we might get all confused.
I never claimed being an expert on Greeks, nor did I really say anything about the Greeks.
Many of the quotes simply mentioned lovers (the Plato quotes for example), which is ambiguous. I will not make base assumptions from quotes, a reason I am not a fan of bible quotes (most of them are taken out of context). It’s hard to see how Greek pedophilia ties into all of this.
Let me see all the Roman cases Taz mentioned as well.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2011 1:03 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2011 11:28 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 144 of 247 (623124)
07-08-2011 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Artemis Entreri
07-07-2011 8:20 PM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
AE writes:
Someone who doesn’t want their 7 year old daughter in 2nd grade learning about male on male butt fucking, is not part of some anti-gay conspiracy, they are probably just being a good parent.
Would you agree that concerns regarding 7 year olds being exposed to stories about male on male butt fucking are no more legitimate than concerns that 7 year olds will be taught about hetero blowjobs, 69ers and other such practices in these classes?
AE writes:
Look nobody is advocating, that homosexual children are ignored and mistreated, and not given the guidance and information they need.
But if any mention of homosexuality to 13 and 14 year olds in school is banned how can it not lead to a lack of guidance and information as well as fostering the impression that homosexuality is something which is taboo?
AE writes:
Bottom line - If conservatives can be taken out of context, and made to look like homophobics, because they support self-determination - then its a shit opinion.
If you really want to take the self-determination stance then any legislative bodies, even local ones, dictating what people can and cannot say should be opposed unless there is very good reason for such restrictions to be applied.
Are there good reasons for the restrictions on speech imposed by this change in the law?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-07-2011 8:20 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2011 10:47 AM Straggler has replied

  
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 2677 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 145 of 247 (623126)
07-08-2011 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Nuggin
07-07-2011 4:22 PM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
Did that guy seriously just espouse the dangers of BrainPOP?
Factual, age-appropriate, informative video clips are, apparently, pretty scary stuff.
The only mention of "witchcraft" comes from maybe twenty seconds of a video describing what various religions are. Imagine, elementary students could have learned that there are numerous religious beliefs throughout the world! Oh the horror!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Nuggin, posted 07-07-2011 4:22 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 247 (623139)
07-08-2011 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Nuggin
07-07-2011 4:22 PM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
That's a video of a radio interview (why it's video and not just audio, I dunno) between a DJ and the sponsor of the bill.
Unfortunately, I'm not set-up to receive audio (here at work).
You give it a listen and tell me if you think Stacey Campbell is doing this without some sort of anti-gay agenda at the heart of it.
Its actually Campfield :Stacey Campfield - Wikipedia
I looked this guy up a little because I couldn't listen to your interview.
Lets assume that he IS a homophobic jerk with an anti-gay agenda.
I've been judging this bill by the letter of the law. Should we instead be judging it by the personal views of its sponsor? Is that how they decide if they're going to vote for it or against it?
Next time I'm considering a new bill, should I dig up the personal views of the sponsor and then judge the bill on that?
If a homophobic jerk with an anti-gay agenda does write a bill that the people do decide that they want to impliment, should they not do it because the guy is a asshole?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Nuggin, posted 07-07-2011 4:22 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Nuggin, posted 07-08-2011 1:06 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 147 of 247 (623145)
07-08-2011 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Straggler
07-08-2011 8:54 AM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
Would you agree that concerns regarding 7 year olds being exposed to stories about male on male butt fucking are no more legitimate than concerns that 7 year olds will be taught about hetero blowjobs, 69ers and other such practices in these classes?
of course not, I was merely trying to adjust my letter of the law thinking, to the non rational out of context thinking that is very prevalent here at EvC. Similar to what Catholic Scientist said in message 18. I do think it is extra funny that everyone loves to post butt fucking so bad and couldn't resist. I was making an over the top comment, in jest, to poke fun at the majority of the non-sense I read on here. fighting the lunacy with lunacy.
But if any mention of homosexuality to 13 and 14 year olds in school is banned how can it not lead to a lack of guidance and information as well as fostering the impression that homosexuality is something which is taboo?
lack of information is obvious, the assumption that this leads to a taboo impression is an assumption that I do not agree with. I never learned about homosexuality in school, and I never built up that taboo.
This is an issue that is to be dealt with at home. when I was in grade school (K-8) from 1983-1992 there were things I liked to do that were banned from School, and it was something I discussed with my parents. They were:
- Playing football (American football not soccer): my parents said suck it up, you can do that in high school.
- Playing Dungeons and Dragons: My parents thought it was weird, but saw how harmless it was (remember in the 80s D&D was satanic), and just said don't do it at school you can play with your friends on the weekends.
- Listening to METAL (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Ozzy Osbourne, Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Pantera), My dad was a big fan of the original wave of british heavy metal, and told me it was all an act, and not to listen to the people who said that was also satanic, and to keep rocking.
if I was gay I know I would have support from my parents as well, and the outcome would be the same. Don't rock the boat at school, get through it, grade school is some trivial BS.
I never made the assumption that these were taboo, anywhere except in school.
If you really want to take the self-determination stance then any legislative bodies, even local ones, dictating what people can and cannot say should be opposed unless there is very good reason for such restrictions to be applied.
Are there good reasons for the restrictions on speech imposed by this change in the law?
this isn't a dictation on speech, it is not attack free speech. believe it or not there are things in school that are regulated. This is simply legislation that further codifies instruction in public schools, and regulates teaching practices in the state of Tennessee.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Straggler, posted 07-08-2011 8:54 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Straggler, posted 07-08-2011 11:41 AM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 150 by Nuggin, posted 07-08-2011 1:15 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 148 of 247 (623156)
07-08-2011 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Artemis Entreri
07-08-2011 10:47 AM


Are You a Libertarian?
AE writes:
I was making an over the top comment, in jest, to poke fun at the majority of the non-sense I read on here. fighting the lunacy with lunacy.
I don't think the whole butt fucking thing was particularly helpful. Let's put it to one side.
AE writes:
lack of information is obvious
Would you agree that lack of information where information is needed is not a good thing?
AE writes:
the assumption that this leads to a taboo impression is an assumption that I do not agree with.
If homosexuality is considered so offensive as to require explicit laws to ban it even being mentioned I don't really see how that can do anything other than result in a degree of stigmatisation.
AE writes:
I never learned about homosexuality in school, and I never built up that taboo.
The objection here is to the ban on it being mentioned where contextually relevant. It is this seeming determination to keep the issue out of sight that creates the impression of being taboo.
AE writes:
This is simply legislation that further codifies instruction in public schools, and regulates teaching practices in the state of Tennessee.
Sure - By explicitly restricting what can and cannot be said in a classroom situation. And there are many good reasons why one may want to do that on any number of topics. But is there a good reason for banning any mention of homosexuality? Or is it just because certain people in society don't like homosexuality?
The self-determination you are so keen to advocate is not achieved by constantly making unnecessary laws to restrict what people can and cannot do where there is no need to do so. The libertarian approach would surely be for the state to impose as few restrictions on individuals as is necessary. I thought you claimed to be a libertarian.........?
So - I'll ask again - Are there good reasons for the restrictions on speech imposed by this change in the law?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2011 10:47 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2011 6:40 PM Straggler has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 149 of 247 (623175)
07-08-2011 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by New Cat's Eye
07-08-2011 10:17 AM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
Its actually Campfield :Stacey Campfield - Wikipedia
Doh, yeah, I knew that. I had to do a search for him to find the clip. It's just that I type "Joseph Campbell" a lot and my fingers sorta got to "Camp..." and took over.
Lets assume that he IS a homophobic jerk with an anti-gay agenda.
I've been judging this bill by the letter of the law. Should we instead be judging it by the personal views of its sponsor? Is that how they decide if they're going to vote for it or against it?
When a law is being suggested which harms one group without helping another, and apparently does NOTHING to fix any existing problems - then YES. Absolutely! 100%
We should ALWAYS judge such laws by the sponsor, since there's clearly no reason to suggest such a law otherwise.
If the law were "the speed limit in school zones should be reduced", there would be no need to question who's behind it. The reasoning is obvious. Who it will benefit is obvious. We can debate whether or not it will make a difference. We can debate what the proper speed should be. But, all sides will agree why this law is being suggested.
But this isn't that. This is "we should pretend that this one minority group doesn't exist and not even mention the fact that they do". There's NO BENEFIT to such a law. Who is this law helping? Who is the law protecting? What bad thing happened the forced the sponsor of this law into action?
That's what's in the audio clip. And after a decade of pushing this law, he STILL doesn't have a good answer. He flounders and comes up with something about witchcraft.
Witchcraft!
Next time I'm considering a new bill, should I dig up the personal views of the sponsor and then judge the bill on that?
ABSOLUTELY! If you are considering a bill and you can't figure out WHY this bill is being proposed or WHO this bill protects, or what loophole this bill fixes, then hell yeah you should look into who is proposing it and why.
Why WOULDN'T you want to do that?
If a homophobic jerk with an anti-gay agenda does write a bill that the people do decide that they want to impliment, should they not do it because the guy is a asshole?
No, they should not do it because it oppresses a group of Americans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-08-2011 10:17 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 150 of 247 (623177)
07-08-2011 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Artemis Entreri
07-08-2011 10:47 AM


Re: The actual law and what it really covers
I was making an over the top comment, in jest,
Or you were revealing your homophobia.
But, if you want to pretend it was on purpose, I'm sure you can convince yourself eventually.
I never learned about homosexuality in school, and I never built up that taboo..
BUTT FUCKING
Yeah, no taboo there.
if I was gay I know I would have support from my parents as well, and the outcome would be the same. Don't rock the boat at school, get through it, grade school is some trivial BS.
You mention football, D&D and Metal.
Tell you what, you find me a couple of kids who had their parents break limbs or kick them out of the house for playing D&D, and I'll grant you this point.
Otherwise, your personal experience is not relevant to what gay kids are going through in America.
Yes, I'm sure that there are some gay kids who have accepting parents. Yay for them. But there are also gay kids who's lives are LITERALLY at risk if they reveal themselves at home.
this isn't a dictation on speech, it is not attack free speech. believe it or not there are things in school that are regulated.
What things and why?
Give us an example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2011 10:47 AM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
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