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Author | Topic: why is the atheist obsessed with the Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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My experience is that non-Christians are more likely to have actually read the Bible than many Christians. I see no signs that they are obsessed with the Bible, rather that they actually read what it says.
if a family wants to go to church and have christian ideas taught in public school, then it is none of the atheist's business. You actually touch on why the Bible is inappropriate in public schools, and that is that they are PUBLIC schools. BUT...the bigger issue is that what you seem to want taught is not Christian ideas but rather your particular version of Christian ideas. That is a great example of what the Founders of this country faced. They understood that the great threat to the continued existence of this Nation is the fact that Christian Sects honestly believe that they have the TRUTH and that everybody else is wrong. Evidence of that is that you seem to think that Evolution is not factual, that there actually was a Biblical Flood, and other issues that are NOT issues for many Christian sects. If you wish to see your particular version of Christianity, then of course you are free to do so, but NOT to impose your beliefs on the rest of society. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
archaeologist writes: i opnly have about an hour so i will only respond to those comments i deem are honest. i may not get to everyone but i will try.
and that is that they are PUBLIC schools. yet christians are part of that public and deserve the right to have their faith taught their children. And no one has ever stopped you from teaching YOUR faith to YOUR children, but do not try and pretend that YOUR faith is Christianity. YOUR faith is but a Veronica's Veil of Christianity, a poor copy, a smudged and perverted image. It is though what YOU created and so you do have the right to teach it to YOUR kids. But as a Christian, I too have rights. I would love for people like you to teach YOUR religion to my kids, just as I educated my kids by encouraging them to learn and explore Taoism and Satanism and Buddhism and Judaism and Islam and the writings of Confucius and Mencius and the Greek, Roman, German and Norse pantheons. And taught them about the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment and about the glories that are this world and the horrific acts of Christianity. But your kids and my kids and all God's kids also need to learn about Evolution because it is FACT, not fantasy. And your kids and my kids and all God's kids also need to learn to question and doubt and challenge YOUR beliefs and my beliefs and their beliefs. But you fear that it seems. That is very sad and so I will pray for your enlightenment.
archaeologist writes: If you wish to see your particular version of Christianity, then of course you are free to do so, but NOT to impose your beliefs on the rest of society. then build your own schools and pay your own salaries etc. the christians have a right to a free public education that is not filled with lies or secular ideas and they have the right , since they pay school taxes, to have the education they want. Yes, kids should not be taught lies, but so far you have been unable to show even one example of lies that are being taught to any kids but your own. And no, no one has a right to have the education that they want. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I'm sorry but the Christianity you describe and try to market seems to be little more than a worthless shell, a cheap and pitiful excuse of a religion designed only to be easy to market.
There is NOTHING in what you said that talks about being a Christian, "accept Jesus" has almost nothing to do with that. Salvation as you present it is just a mockery. And Jesus did not die for our sins, he lived to teach us how to be Human. The Sacrifice is NOT Jesus death, it is the fact of his life. When Jesus said to take up Lacrosse, he was not just talking about the sport. The cross is what we are commanded to do. We are charged to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, educate the children, comfort the sorrowful, protect the innocent and forgive those who are not so innocent. Christianity is not about salvation, not about a joyful life, not about relief but about charge, about commitment, about fidelity, about compassion, about doing. What you market is an easy sell, I can see that, but it is NOT the message I get from reading the Bible. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Nij writes: You might see atheists pick on details because the details often contradict whatever attack is being supported by the story. See any of multiple other threads for examples; Jar is especially adept at doing it and there are at least two others with notable skill at pointing out where fundies have got the facts completely wrong. Just for clarification, jar is NOT an atheist but a Cradle Creedal Christian of the Episcopal Chapter of Club Christian. I think the difference is slightly more subtle than just Atheist/Theist/Christian/etc . I find that a lot of the Atheists and Agnostics actually have read the Bible. By that, I mean they do not just grab passages out of context, rather they seem to have actually read the manual. I have found that far too often Christians ideas of "reading the Bible" is from Bible study groups where some SOURCE, some leader says, read this passage and I'll tell you what it means. Too often the "passage" is simply one or two verses taken totally out of context. They then have a tradition that the Bible interprets itself. They jump to some other part of the Bible that was written by someone else entirely, often from a different era, culture and mythos than the first passage, take a few lines again out of context and use those as "Proof Text". A day or so ago the Book of Ruth was mentioned. But to really understand the Book of Ruth you need to understand parts of Genesis, Numbers, even some Deuteronomy and Chronicles. Until you sit down and actually read the Bible cover to cover, not once but several times, I'm not at all sure you can really understand much of it. The Bible is an anthology of anthologies, with a very general purpose of presenting snapshots of how people viewed their God, their community, the others around them and their world in general. Until you can see it as other than some monolithic tome with but one message you just don't get it. Edited by jar, : fix gram mare Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I think that is very often the case. Trying to read the Bible "as a book" is almost certain to turn folk away. It is not "a Book", its a collection, an anthology of anthologies.
And you gotta watch out for them Unitarians. Remember they came from Transylvania. I think it is really hard to really understand Christianity when you are told to look for Answers to QuestionS and not answers to question. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Omni writes: But not as wicked as the Southern Baptist and Church of the Nazarene girls. Ah yes. Had to become a Royal Ambassador one year for just that reason... Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No biggie. I just take Christianity seriously and hate it when Christians misrepresent what is actually there. After all we are expected to have actually read the manual, the Club Charter.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Like I said, nothing more than an empty shell and platitudes.
What you market is an easy sell, I can see that, but it is NOT the message I get from reading the Bible. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Portillo writes: Because the Bible is the only origins book worth debating? HUH? Is there any origin explanation in the Bible. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Portillo writes: jar writes: HUH? Is there any origin explanation in the Bible. Yes, Genesis. How come noone here ever debates the Hindu texts or Koran? Most of the subforums are dedicated to whether the Bible is the word of God or not. Actually, not even in Genesis. Genesis 1 is more a matter of organization. Genesis 2&3 have some critter creation. But neither is really about creation or provide any explanation of how anything gets created. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually I'm speaking as a Christian that has actually read the fables.
Genesis I is a matter of bringing order out of chaos, and in Genesis 2 & 3 we again see just changing order, making mud figures as an example and then magically animating them. But creation is not the purpose or function of either the older fable found in Genesis 2 & 3 or the much, much, much younger fable found in Genesis 1. AbE: and of course, neither fable is factually correct or tells us anything. Even if they were true we would still have no idea how anything happened. Edited by jar, : AbE: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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