EvC Forum: Creationism in science classrooms (an argument for)

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Topic: Creationism in science classrooms (an argument for)

arachnophilia

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Message 138 of 609 (606053)
02-23-2011 3:31 PM

Reply to: Message 137 by Rahvin
02-23-2011 12:33 PM

hi rahvin.

what an excellent post in response to such utter nonsense. but i have a tiny correction:

The very first Amendment to our Constitution states:

quote:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

The bold section is what we call the "establishment clause." It means that no governmental agency (local, state, or federal) can make a law that establishes a state religion.

this isn't entirely accurate. technically speaking, it only means that federal law making agencies (eg: the congress) can't establish a state religion. the "state" part was secured by the fourteenth amendment, which says in part:

quote:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;

the issue of states' rights in a federalist government is something that actually took some time to work out in our country. we didn't especially solve it until just after the civil war over those very issues. and judging by some recent republican rhetoric, some might say we still haven't solved it today.

the "local" was secured by logical extension (probably supreme court cases) of the argument for the "state" part: that these were liberties the founding fathers intended for the people -- individual liberty over religious affiliation -- and not for the states.

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arachnophilia

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Posts: 9069

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Message 214 of 609 (606603)
02-26-2011 10:04 PM

Reply to: Message 213 by Coyote
02-26-2011 9:32 PM

Re: Comparative religion

coyote writes:

What you are describing is a comparative religion course. It would examine all pertinent views, and would not select any one view as the TRVTH. ... But if you let creationists preach a course, you violate the constitution and do a disservice to the students.

That's what creationists want, of course.

right. they want their brand injected into schools, and nobody else's. because i think they inherently understand what many of their children end up learning in college:

christian + comparative religion course = atheist.

Edited by arachnophilia, : typo, even in a short post!

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arachnophilia

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Posts: 9069

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Message 250 of 609 (607266)
03-02-2011 8:29 PM

Reply to: Message 249 by Coyote
03-02-2011 8:14 PM

Re: That pesky evidence thing again

coyote writes:

Creationism is unsupported by evidence. Until it can come up with something better than "evolution is all wet" it doesn't deserve any place in science or in classrooms.

i disagree. if there actually was a problem with evolution, and something pointed it out, that would be very much a legitimate part of the scientific process.

the problem is not that creationism doesn't come up with a better idea. it's that it's all lies, distortions, and misinformation.

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arachnophilia

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Message 393 of 609 (610256)
03-28-2011 8:04 PM

Reply to: Message 392 by Taq
03-28-2011 7:01 PM

well... and logic.

but it's not the state's responsibility to coddle religion. if reality contradicts that religion, then it is not the state's fault for teaching things that contradict the religion. religions should just try to not make false claims.

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arachnophilia

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Posts: 9069

From: god's waiting room

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Message 567 of 609 (612206)
04-13-2011 8:02 PM

Reply to: Message 565 by Dawn Bertot
04-13-2011 7:13 PM

Re: New header (finally)

Dawn Bertot writes:

ID was presented in a courtroom. It was found to not be science by a Federal judge.

And as usual you miss the point. it was not present accurately, not to discredit anyone, but these things happen.

michael behe didn't present ID accurately?

okay.

how would you have presented it? as creationism? that would have ended that trial a whole lot faster.

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arachnophilia

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Posts: 9069

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Message 593 of 609 (612431)
04-15-2011 3:00 PM

Reply to: Message 585 by Robert Byers
04-15-2011 3:13 AM

Re: An Argument For?

Robert Byers writes:

My great insistence is that the founding Yankee and southern Puritan and Protestant population who gave the constitution legitimacy and so its force NEVER intended anything to ban God or Genesis in schools as the truth or options for truth on points of origin.

no, of course they didn't.

because they didn't plan for mandatory, state-funded public education.

they also didn't intend for slavery to end. or for women to gain the right to vote.

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arachnophilia

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Posts: 9069

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Message 594 of 609 (612432)
04-15-2011 3:02 PM

Reply to: Message 591 by Taq
04-15-2011 10:56 AM

Re: Creationism is Religion

Taq writes:

No teach[er] in any public school is teaching that religion is false.

i dunno about that. if your religion contradicts reality, teaching reality does tech that that religion is false. but that's hardly the fault of the teacher.

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