Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 57 (9174 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Post Volume: Total: 917,616 Year: 4,873/9,624 Month: 221/427 Week: 31/103 Day: 0/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is Japan being punished by God??
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4788 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 61 of 64 (611810)
04-11-2011 10:11 AM


This is one of the big reasons why I became an atheist. I was taught by my family that the only people who get to go to heaven are Proper Christians, those who worship God in the correct way. Then I learned that some people believe that God is a kind and loving God. Then I started hearing about how God punishes people just because they don't believe in him. And if God is a kind and loving God, why would he punish people for small offenses? Because it's tough love baby some people say.
And to top it off, God is a megalomaniacal genocidal maniac who suffers from Munchhausen Syndrome and is possibly schizophrenic to boot. And I mean this in all seriousness.
So why would I want to worship or serve or work with a person like that?
Might makes right?
Hmm, no, I don't believe that. Which is also contradictory to the meek shall inherit the earth.
If God is so perfect then why are there so many different interpretations of the Bible? The Bible is so poorly written it can be used to support any belief. Wouldn't a perfect and Omnipotent God know how to avoid this problem of alternate interpretations to support beliefs he doesn't like?
And of course, if we're supposed to blindly follow and worship god to the letter of the law, then why give us free will? Free will allows us to come to our own decisions. Blind worship and servitude negates free will.
There is a few scant morality in it that i do agree with, such as not coveting thy neighbor's things and some passages like that, but other than that, the Bible is one of the most confusing works of literature of all time.
And I do not want to be confused and I do not want to be connected with a psychopathic killer, and I don't understand why other people do.

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by fearandloathing, posted 04-11-2011 10:46 AM Tram law has not replied
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 04-11-2011 11:26 AM Tram law has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 62 of 64 (611816)
04-11-2011 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tram law
04-11-2011 10:11 AM


Tram law writes:
This is one of the big reasons why I became an atheist. I was taught by my family that the only people who get to go to heaven are Proper Christians, those who worship God in the correct way. Then I learned that some people believe that God is a kind and loving God. Then I started hearing about how God punishes people just because they don't believe in him. And if God is a kind and loving God, why would he punish people for small offenses? Because it's tough love baby some people say.
And to top it off, God is a megalomaniacal genocidal maniac who suffers from Munchhausen Syndrome and is possibly schizophrenic to boot. And I mean this in all seriousness.
So why would I want to worship or serve or work with a person like that?
Might makes right?
Hmm, no, I don't believe that. Which is also contradictory to the meek shall inherit the earth.
If God is so perfect then why are there so many different interpretations of the Bible? The Bible is so poorly written it can be used to support any belief. Wouldn't a perfect and Omnipotent God know how to avoid this problem of alternate interpretations to support beliefs he doesn't like?
And of course, if we're supposed to blindly follow and worship god to the letter of the law, then why give us free will? Free will allows us to come to our own decisions. Blind worship and servitude negates free will.
There is a few scant morality in it that i do agree with, such as not coveting thy neighbor's things and some passages like that, but other than that, the Bible is one of the most confusing works of literature of all time.
And I do not want to be confused and I do not want to be connected with a psychopathic killer, and I don't understand why other people do.
I am going to go out on a limb a little bit here as I don't belive in any god.
As I understand the bible, god doesn't punish anyone anymore, the laws of the old testament were meant for the children of Israel, and with the coming of Jesus they no longer apply to his followers, Galatians 3:23-25. This is where free will comes into play, you can choose not to belive and wont be punished for it, well not directly. If you don't belive and live life as JC wants then you will not go to heaven, but I think this has even been disputed in a topic on here.
No offense, but the way you speak of god might lead one to belive that you reject god, but still belive he is real.
I find many good things in the teachings of JC, tolerance, love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, do unto others...ect. I also find many good things in other religions also, but I don't accredit these things to the word of any god.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tram law, posted 04-11-2011 10:11 AM Tram law has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6203
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 63 of 64 (611819)
04-11-2011 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tram law
04-11-2011 10:11 AM


Tram law writes:
If God is so perfect then why are there so many different interpretations of the Bible? The Bible is so poorly written it can be used to support any belief. Wouldn't a perfect and Omnipotent God know how to avoid this problem of alternate interpretations to support beliefs he doesn't like?
For what it is worth I think that you ask all the right questions.
People like things to be simple. We like guidelines and we want to know them clearly. In the case of religion we want to know clearly how to get whatever god it is we worship on our side. As a result the tendency has been for many Christians to turn the Bible into a book of rules so that they can come up with definitive answers to all their questions. Personally I don't accept that and yet I define myself first and foremost as a Christian. The question should not be about how do I get to heaven because if it is then we turned the whole focus back on ourselves. The question should be is this a god that represents the truth, and is it a god that I want to serve.
IMHO the Bible is not a book but a series of books written by many authors over hundreds of years that tells the story of God breaking into this world and the lives of the people He charged with taking His life changing message to the world. The problem was that those entrusted with taking God’s message to the world kept messing up in pretty much the same way we see today. Instead of following God's message of unselfish sacrificial love they, (and now we), worship such gods as wealth, power and pride.
The Bible tells all that. God's people continuously kept saying that we have God on our side so that will make us powerful and we can go out and defeat all of our neighbours, make ourselves powerful and rule the world. Sure they had what they believed to be their triumphs and they trumpeted how God had led them to great victories but in the end it all came to nothing, and they bounced around from pillar to post normally under the thumb of some foreign power. We have the Bible so that we can learn from that. The Bible isn't there to tell us how to gain power in this world but how to change hearts for the future world.
I know I keep repeating this but I think it’s true. Many churches have turned the Bible into the fourth member of the Trinity. It isn’t! Yes, I believe that God inspired people to write down the story but included in that story are the revelations of God, but also the stories of His people and that includes what they got right but also their many screw-ups. As I said in another thread do we really believe that the God that we see revealed in Jesus, the God who told us to love our enemies would also tell the early Jews that if their kids didn't do as they were told, they were to have the good citizens of the town stone them to death.
The Bible says that Jesus is the Word of God. We should read scripture through that lens. I think it is important to study the Bible. Jesus continuously referred to the scriptures to find great truths but He never claimed that they had been dictated by the Father. He summed up all the law and the prophets by telling us to love God and neighbour. He didn't say that you go out conquering your neighbour to gain land and power but instead told us to love them.
You mentioned free will in your post. I think that your conclusions were right on the money. A god that would try and control us through a book is not a god of free will. I also contend that isn't the God of the Bible. It isn't easy. For example: what is the right thing to do about Libya. There were and are people there that are being slaughtered. We in the west have the power to do something but what is the right thing? There is no easy answer. Is the right thing to go and drop bombs on the people we believe to be in the wrong, or isn't it. Frankly, I don't know, and coward that I am I'm grateful that I don't have to make that kind of decision. Yes I believe that we have the gift of free will and we choose what it is we worship, and it does come down to faith. I have faith that God’s message of love as witnessed to by a resurrected Jesus will eventually lead to a newly created world where unselfish love will be the norm.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tram law, posted 04-11-2011 10:11 AM Tram law has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 04-12-2011 1:02 PM GDR has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 64 of 64 (611968)
04-12-2011 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by GDR
04-11-2011 11:26 AM


GDR writes:
The question should not be about how do I get to heaven because if it is then we turned the whole focus back on ourselves. The question should be is this a god that represents the truth, and is it a god that I want to serve.
That's logical! I suppose that if a person didn't want to serve God, it wouldn't be fair to torture them(or let them torture themselves!)
GDR writes:
The problem was that those entrusted with taking Gods message to the world kept messing up in pretty much the same way we see today. Instead of following God's message of unselfish sacrificial love they, (and now we), worship such gods as wealth, power and pride.
Which means that even if original sin was a farce, human tendency to take the easy route supersedes our tendency to be like Christ. I can relate, since its much easier to worry about my paycheck and retirement than it is to be a homeless man spreading a message of love and generosity.
GDR writes:
A god that would try and control us through a book is not a god of free will. I also contend that isn't the God of the Bible. It isn't easy. For example: what is the right thing to do about Libya. There were and are people there that are being slaughtered. We in the west have the power to do something but what is the right thing? There is no easy answer.
And no, God isn't punishing Japan, IMHO. God doesn't manipulate Geology or nature. (or humans) Do we in the West have enough "power" (money, resources) to continue helping or shaping the world the way we want it to be, or will this whole thing backfire someday? Personally I think we should be making more friends than enemies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 04-11-2011 11:26 AM GDR has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024