Register | Sign In

Understanding through Discussion

EvC Forum active members: 53 (9179 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Happy Birthday: Theodoric
Post Volume: Total: 918,137 Year: 5,394/9,624 Month: 419/323 Week: 59/204 Day: 1/34 Hour: 0/1

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Author Topic:   Is Japan being punished by God??
Posts: 6206
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005

Message 28 of 64 (610057)
03-25-2011 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by fearandloathing
03-15-2011 5:58 PM

fearand loathing writes:
That is why I started this topic, I know there are some Christians on here who seem like good people and I was wondering what they thought. I really didn't expect to see the hate I have seen elsewhere, thank goodness. I didn't actually expect anyone to be able to justify these nuts actions with any relevant passages from the New Testament, although I wasn't 100% sure as my knowledge of bible is not as good as it could be.
Frankly I thought that you opened this just as a means to put down Christians. It seems however that wasn't the case. It's my faith, which I contend is scriptural, that God is pained by what happened in Japan and suffers as does all who are affected.
The only part I see God having in it, is in His working through his created people. He has given us the wisdom and the will to be able to better anticipate natural disasters so that we are better prepared, and he has given us hearts to bring aid to those that suffer.
And so there is no misuderstanding, I'm not saying that He only works through Christians.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by fearandloathing, posted 03-15-2011 5:58 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by fearandloathing, posted 03-26-2011 10:38 AM GDR has not replied

Posts: 6206
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005

Message 53 of 64 (610139)
03-26-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
03-26-2011 6:10 PM

Re: Sovereign Entities
Buzsaw writes:
All of the 1967 Six Day War Islamic Nations who vowed to drive Israel into the sea were armed by Russian tanks, planes and other armament. They and Russia have a common hostility towards Israel. All of Islam is, of course anti-Israel.
Ezekiel 38 names nations north of Israel and a number of Islamic nations which will comprise the end time Armageddon invasion of the nation Israel after it has been regathered from the nations and is flourishing.
All nations are now demanding the dividing of Israel's scriptural rightful land, especially Jerusalem. Thus the wrath of Jehovah who promised Abraham Isaac and Jacob his blessing on nations blessing Israel and cursings upon nations cursing Israel. That's the way it's played out historically.
Japan was allied with the Holocaust perpetrators in WWII, but all nations are now complicit in dividing Israel's/Jehovah's promised messianic relatively tiny parcel of land.
Having studied the prophecies, 60 plus years ago, I have been aware for decades of how this would play out. The named nations are doing the playing out of it as as written and as we have observed. As the nations align against Israel, so come the cursings via ever escalating catastrophe, wars, unrest and oppression.
God bless America isn't working out for the US of A, any more than what was embossed on the German WWII army's belt buckles, "Gott Mit Uns" (God bless us)
Hi Buz
I really don’t like getting involved in these discussions as I know that you fervently believe what you write and are trying to serve God as best as you know how. The problem is that so do I and yet, we have some really fundamental differences. Frankly I feel that, what I view as your representation of the Christian faith can be harmful to the work that God wants to do through his church and through all of mankind.
Ezekeil 38 is prophesying that God will return to Israel, lead that nation against its enemies and establish the Jewish nation of Israel as the dominant nation. This is the theme throughout most, but not all of the OT.
Jesus came and said that this was true but that it wasn’t going to look like they all thought, which was one of the primary reasons that the establishment took issue with him.
He said that yes, God was coming, and indeed had come to establish the kingdom, but it would be a kingdom that would be for, but not of, this world. It would be a kingdom without borders and in all nations. Its weapon would be the weapons of truth, justice, love, peace, forgiveness, mercy etc. We are to use the weapons that God has given us.
The Bible is also clear that it isn’t about this world coming to an end and the guys that believe the right stuff getting whisked off into some disembodied existence somewhere else. That comes from Plato — not the Bible.
Read the last chapters of Isaiah , read Ephesians 1, and read Revelation 21. It is about God re-creating this world. It’s about God’s dimension of heaven and our earthly dimension coming together. But frankly so what, as there is nothing that we can do about that anyway. The Bible is either correct about that, as I believe, or it’s wrong. We can’t control that, but what we can control is this one part of creation that we have been given control over which is the individual lives that we have been given.
The thing that is clear is that we have been given a job to do. It is our job to be good stewards of the wonderful world created for us. It is our job to spread God’s love, (that being the all encompassing attribute of God), to the world. Instead of trying to point out who our enemies are let’s just realize that it isn’t people who are the enemies but the presence of evil, (or the absence of love however you want to put it), in the world. Instead of saying that Islam is the enemy let’s look at where we can find common ground and through word and action show them that the path of love, peace and harmony is the way to go.
Jesus is a major prophet, and often recognized as Messiah in the Islamic faith. Sure as Christians we see him as being more than that, but wouldn’t that be a good place to start. We say to Muslims that yes Jesus is a prophet and he brought a message of peace and love. They don’t have to reject their Muslim faith to do that. This has as often as not worked out with Muslims and Christians living side by side. I’m suggesting that your approach only exacerbates the problem and causes further division.
The Bible is clear that Jesus is the word of God. I think we should pay attention to what He had to say.
Edited by GDR, : typos

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 03-26-2011 6:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by subbie, posted 03-26-2011 7:47 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 58 by anglagard, posted 03-27-2011 3:31 AM GDR has not replied

Posts: 6206
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005

Message 63 of 64 (611819)
04-11-2011 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tram law
04-11-2011 10:11 AM

Tram law writes:
If God is so perfect then why are there so many different interpretations of the Bible? The Bible is so poorly written it can be used to support any belief. Wouldn't a perfect and Omnipotent God know how to avoid this problem of alternate interpretations to support beliefs he doesn't like?
For what it is worth I think that you ask all the right questions.
People like things to be simple. We like guidelines and we want to know them clearly. In the case of religion we want to know clearly how to get whatever god it is we worship on our side. As a result the tendency has been for many Christians to turn the Bible into a book of rules so that they can come up with definitive answers to all their questions. Personally I don't accept that and yet I define myself first and foremost as a Christian. The question should not be about how do I get to heaven because if it is then we turned the whole focus back on ourselves. The question should be is this a god that represents the truth, and is it a god that I want to serve.
IMHO the Bible is not a book but a series of books written by many authors over hundreds of years that tells the story of God breaking into this world and the lives of the people He charged with taking His life changing message to the world. The problem was that those entrusted with taking God’s message to the world kept messing up in pretty much the same way we see today. Instead of following God's message of unselfish sacrificial love they, (and now we), worship such gods as wealth, power and pride.
The Bible tells all that. God's people continuously kept saying that we have God on our side so that will make us powerful and we can go out and defeat all of our neighbours, make ourselves powerful and rule the world. Sure they had what they believed to be their triumphs and they trumpeted how God had led them to great victories but in the end it all came to nothing, and they bounced around from pillar to post normally under the thumb of some foreign power. We have the Bible so that we can learn from that. The Bible isn't there to tell us how to gain power in this world but how to change hearts for the future world.
I know I keep repeating this but I think it’s true. Many churches have turned the Bible into the fourth member of the Trinity. It isn’t! Yes, I believe that God inspired people to write down the story but included in that story are the revelations of God, but also the stories of His people and that includes what they got right but also their many screw-ups. As I said in another thread do we really believe that the God that we see revealed in Jesus, the God who told us to love our enemies would also tell the early Jews that if their kids didn't do as they were told, they were to have the good citizens of the town stone them to death.
The Bible says that Jesus is the Word of God. We should read scripture through that lens. I think it is important to study the Bible. Jesus continuously referred to the scriptures to find great truths but He never claimed that they had been dictated by the Father. He summed up all the law and the prophets by telling us to love God and neighbour. He didn't say that you go out conquering your neighbour to gain land and power but instead told us to love them.
You mentioned free will in your post. I think that your conclusions were right on the money. A god that would try and control us through a book is not a god of free will. I also contend that isn't the God of the Bible. It isn't easy. For example: what is the right thing to do about Libya. There were and are people there that are being slaughtered. We in the west have the power to do something but what is the right thing? There is no easy answer. Is the right thing to go and drop bombs on the people we believe to be in the wrong, or isn't it. Frankly, I don't know, and coward that I am I'm grateful that I don't have to make that kind of decision. Yes I believe that we have the gift of free will and we choose what it is we worship, and it does come down to faith. I have faith that God’s message of love as witnessed to by a resurrected Jesus will eventually lead to a newly created world where unselfish love will be the norm.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tram law, posted 04-11-2011 10:11 AM Tram law has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 04-12-2011 1:02 PM GDR has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:

Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024