Born Again

Initially, way back in message 24 I asked jar what part that God,Jesus, and/or the Holy Spirit played in my decision to do more for the least of these (whom I felt no real desire to help.)My problem, as I saw it, was that I didnt feel born again or even very Christian. I felt that my own problems at earning enough money to retire on were as pressing as any charge that I had to help the homeless. Because of the internal conflict as to how I felt, I expressed myself in this forum topic. And so we continue. I had a dream a couple of nights ago, shortly after posting here and reading the early replies. Additionally, I have been stirred up by reading Francis Chans book, Crazy Love. (Yes, jar, I see that he is selling stuff) I imagine that Francis Chan is marketing a product. So be it. It made me feel guilty. Chan had some radical statements within his book.Milton Frieman, on the other hand, had a sound argument that made myself and a hundred million other guilty capitalists feel a lot better about our basic path in life. The question arises, however. Is spirituality and daily economic and social reality compatable? I agree. My sin is a sin of indifference. Chan seems to emphasize that one cannot be a lukewarm christian. Jars "charge" even seems to corroborate what Chan is saying, without even having to bring religious indoctrination into it. See Mike, I dont see concise evidence that there are two distinct sets of people...namely "Lost" and "Found".I used to believe that this was so, but I have received very good advice from what some would consider "lost" people. This also gets us back to the source versus content discussion. Mike, thank you very much for your concern. I do not believe that I am unable to hear Gods direction for my life. I do seem a bit anxious that He wont give me the inspiration or love for others that I seek. I do believe quite strongly that flesh and spirit are at odds with one another. Having an emotional catharsis from God is diametrically opposed to getting laid, for example. I can get ecstatic over a casino win and thank my lucky stars (or Jesus) for the moment, but we really cant expect God to reward a self proclaimed spiritual man with a carnal desire and attempt to "spiritualize" the episode, can we? Lets assume that the hundred million dollar powerball jackpot was a "spiritual gift" just waiting to be delivered to the right person. (keeping in mind that the love of money is the root of all evil! ) If a so-called righteous man prays for such a gift and has all of the right spiritual intentions as to the use for the money, is he any more likely to receive the gift than a crack addict, a New York Bank executive who is already loaded, or a politician in need of funding?Sorry I got off on that track.... Actually, I have, Mike. He wont give me any answers. He is not angry at me for discussing this with mere humans, however. Percys Forum wont get smited anytime soon. I think that honest introspection is a good thing. What would I be letting go of? For me, as a believer, God exists, has never forced me to do anything, and can no more be let go of than letting go of oxygen. (unless one were suicidal, which I'm not.) I believe that God does not expect all true inspiration and rationale to be found exists only in the Holy Bible, however. And that itself sparks a controversial argument! I could accept the mercy. The guilt would go away. For some reason, however, the guilt is supposed to be there. I wont duck away from it so easily. My main problem with this "charge" is that I am unsure what the exact instructions are. Milton Friedman does have some good points, after all. I received a clear epiphany from my dream the other day, however. My inability to care about others stems from my willful ignorance of myself. It could be one of the roots of my occasional depression. I am not really worried about getting into Heaven. I just know I may be embarrassed or even ashamed once I get there. I may have been focusing on the wrong thing. I can agree with this. I sometimes feel, however, that what God tells me is even twisted by myself to conform to whats comfortable for me. Hopefully, this guilt will allow me to progress eventually rather than going in circles. I agree totally, Mike. I need to read my Bible more. I am not afraid of being brainwashed by any man or philosophy. God has given me a sound mind. It is my heart that I am more worried about, though!

No you didn't, Mike. You used to be a whole lot more laid back, objective, submissive and humble in the past. You seem more legalistic to me now that you ever were in the past. I swear at you? Why? Because I used the word "shit?" It just a word, Mike. Please show me where in the bible that the word "shit" is a "bad word." These are concoctions of a timid and frightened society. It has nothing to do with God. God is simply evoked to give it some kind of authority. Just making an observation. You have to be out there actively trying to save people's souls. In fact, that was Jesus' very last commission to his flock. Therefore you have a vested interest in converting people.True or not true?

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

It means that your parents went to a cult meeting, and now when you die your mother gives birth to you again and you grow really fast to your true physically age.

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This attitude(my feeling) is entirely against the spirit of repentance; the notion that you prefer the current path and have no desire to change is in direct conflict with the act of repentance.

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No matter how hard it is to repent, you first have to want to repent.

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And what if one has problems wanting to repent? Do we simply wait until the attitude changes? Look, I have no problem giving to worthy causes. Heck, I'll even do it without the tax break...and cheerfully too!I refuse, however, to help an alcoholic get a beer. Or a homeless man who has been caught stealing in my store. Maybe this is why I am so miserable at times, I dunno...seems as if I am getting taxed more, am becoming poorer myself, and yet am expected to help a class of people who already get free food from Uncle Sam.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Double PostEdited by AdminPD, : No reason given.

You cannot help addicts by financing their habits. No one expects that of you.But generally speaking, you are stuck in a rut until your attitude regarding repentance changes, and left alone that might never happen.

voidEdited by NoNukes, : stupid duplicate

I don't think you'll find the answer to that question on the Internet. Why? Why?

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Love your enemies!

My father was a homebuilder who worked hard his whole life and who was my role model. He once told me never to give a homeless man money because they may buy beer or liquor with it. Instead, Dad would offer to buy them a meal. Some took him up on it, others didn't.Dad taught me practical generosity. Why contribute to a mans alcohol or drug addiction? This goes for foreign nations as well. If the US simply helps a new dictator come to power in order to oust an old one, are we not casting pearls before swine?Money doesn't come easy, and it should never go easy either. Think before you give. Edited by Phat, : fixed quote

When was the last time you did this? Nowhere does Jesus tell folk to overthrow dictators to put new ones in power. Was that the charge given?Jon

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Love your enemies!

Think of it as contributing to his self-esteem, allowing him the dignity of deciding for himself how to spend the money.Ultimately, he's the one who has to decide whether to use drugs or not. By withholding money, all you're doing is motivating him to use more desperate means - e.g. crime - to get them.When you give him money, you're also giving him responsibility.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

Is that practical? If you buy a man food, you are enabling him to spend whatever other money he can panhandle on his true passion. I'll admit that I'm a lighter touch when someone asks me for food rather than money, but I also know that most of the homeless people I encounter have drug and/or alcohol problems. Your dad was a generous man, but in a practical sense, giving away food rather than cash is just a little easier on the conscience. That's your own personal philosophy, and not one I agree with. Yes, you should think before you give, but that shouldn't impede sharing.

It is to receive another life in addition to the life that you received when you were naturally born.From the receiver's initial standpoint it is like coming to know a Person. quoted from below:Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regeneration Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Why did Jesus ask Nicodemus, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" (John 3:10) if He wasn't talking about the Jewish idea of rebirth/renewal/regeneration?

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

I don't know for certain.My opinion is that Jesus was saying that the real teachers of Israel spoke according to God's divine revelation. "Jesus answered and said to him, You are a teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things.

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Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that which we know and testify of that which we have seen, and yet you do not receive our testimomy." (v.10,11) This strikes me as Jesus saying the He and John the Baptist and the prophets are the genuine teachers of Israel. They are speak according to the revelation of God. The genuine teacher of Israel has something learned not by rot, but by direct revelation from God.Jesus was gently chiding his superficial religious position and exposing his need to receive revelation from God in order to be among the true teachers of Israel.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.