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Author | Topic: Going to hell? Fringe lunatics | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1940 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
jar writes: Even inspired to write fiction. Inspired by God .. to write fiction. I think I'll stick to waiting for purpledawn to clarify her position.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
iano writes: jar writes: Even inspired to write fiction. Inspired by God .. to write fiction. sure, why not? did the parable of the prodigal son actually happen, or did jesus use a fictional story to illustrate a greater truth?
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
iano writes: jar writes: Even inspired to write fiction. Inspired by God .. to write fiction. I think I'll stick to waiting for purpledawn to clarify her position. Of course to write fiction, folk tales, mythology. The Garden of Eden myth, the Genealogies, Flood myths, Creation myths, the Exodus saga, the Conquest of Canaan myths, Ruth, ... Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Sure they were. Inspiration isn't exact and can come from many directions besides God. There are various theories of inspiration concerning the Bible, so we probably aren't going to agree. I go with natural inspiration. God wasn't the only influence on the writers. When a writer wants us to know what God said, they will say so. Like I asked in Message 39: Would I be correct in claiming that God said Jesus was possessed by Beelzebub? (Mark 3:22) Yes the writers were even inspired to write fiction and poetry. Sometimes fictional stories are an easy way to get a lesson across. You're pulling us away from the point of the topic, which is hell.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Iano writes: If the inspiration is from God then wouldn't all the conclusions drawn by the inspired whilst under inspiration conform to God's view? For example: quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Acts 18:9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city. 11 So Paul stayed in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What practical difference God's view issued by dictation or inspiration? We would agree that Paul was inspired by God to continue teaching in Corinth. It doesn't follow at all, unless one decides to impose their own view on what is written, that Paul would just be a conduit for God to speak through without involving Paul's own thoughts. It just means that Paul was gifted, and inspired, to preach to the Corinthians and as Paul would agree, to do so in spite of his human failings. For example: Thirty years ago I believe I was led into a ministry of leading sing-alongs with seniors. I have been doing it ever since but as anyone who has heard me can well attest I don't do it perfectly. I believe that the Biblical authors, were inspired to write down their experiences of God and that now we in turn are to allow ourselves to be inspired by what they wrote. We are to be inspired to reflect God's love and righteousness to the world, we are to learn from the mistakes that have been made by the various authors and the people they wrote about, we are to be led in all truth by God's Holy Spirit and the Bible is one of the gifts given us by God to do that. Will we do it perfectly? Not by a long shot. I have been going through the book of Joshua. It is a blood curdling story about Joshua going from one town to another killing everyone in sight declaring that God is delivering them into their hands. Does that idea bear any resemblance whatsoever to what Jesus taught? We are to look at the story of Jonah and be inspired to sort out how he went so wrong and to draw parallels in our own lives, both as individuals and as societies so that we don't make the same mistakes. I contend that if we try to turn the Bible into one long book of rules and other absolutes we are missing out on so much of what God wants to teach us. As I have said before, I don’t believe that the Bible is the 4th member of the Trinity. God has created us with free will and to treat the Bible as a book that would have us follow without question a set of laws negates our ability to follow God, as seen through the lens of the resurrected Jesus who we are told is the word of God. We are to follow out of love not fear. The Bible chronicles the history and stories of God’s people. When looked at from a distance it tells the meta-narrative from creation to new creation and calls us to see where and how we fit into that story. Edited by GDR, : typo Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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sac51495 Member (Idle past 4719 days) Posts: 176 From: Atlanta, GA, United States Joined: |
GDR,
God has created us with free will and to treat the Bible as a book that would have us follow without question a set of laws negates our ability to follow God, as seen through the lens of the resurrected Jesus who we are told is the word of God. We are to follow out of love not fear. As Jesus himself said,
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:18-19
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
ICANT writes: All I know is that I have met the requirements that Jesus set down for me to receive eternal life. I do not know about anybody else. I'm not questioning your faith or your love of God but in writing that you sound so much like the Pharisees. They believed if they just followed all the food laws, kept the Sabbath with all that entailed that they would be alright and that God would return, rebuild the temple and vindicate them. Jesus told them they had their model wrong. I suggest that the model God wants us to follow is simply that of love, a love freely chosen, because love is where our heart is, not just so that we can be on the right side of God. Once again I go back to Micah where we are told exactly what it is that God wants of us. We are to humbly love kindness and do justice. There is nothing in there about getting our theology right. The same message is echoed in Christ's parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. The road to hell is one freely chosen as well. It is the road we choose to travel when we are unwilling to accept love that supersedes our love of self. I suggest reading C S Lewis’ book The Great Divorce. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
sac51495 writes: GDR,
God has created us with free will and to treat the Bible as a book that would have us follow without question a set of laws negates our ability to follow God, as seen through the lens of the resurrected Jesus who we are told is the word of God. We are to follow out of love not fear. As Jesus himself said,
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:18-19 I always find it funny when folk pull something like that out of context. It certainly diminishes and trivializes the Bible and does the author of Matthew a great disservice. That is pulled out of a much longer passage where Jesus goes on to explain that it is your behavior, not belief even in Jesus, that is significant. The rest of Matthew 5:
quote: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9
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sac51495 writes: As Jesus himself said, "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:18-19 Sure, but let’s look at where he is going with this. He has just finished preaching The Beatitudes in which he describes the life that we are to lead now in anticipation of the time when God’s will, will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, or at the time of new creation. Just before the verse you quoted, Jesus said that he hadn’t come to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfill them. This was a revolutionary message. It was new beginning and when you read the beatitudes you can see that the laws to which he is referring to aren’t about absolutes but are generalities such as blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, and blessed are the peacemakers. He then goes on to give a series of things not to do such as murder and things to do such as loving your enemy. But once again these things are encapsulated in what he says towards the end of the sermon when he says, In everything, do unto others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. In other words unselfish love fulfills every jot and tittle of the law.
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Jon Inactive Member |
The doctrine of salvation by faith has long supported the idea that anyone can get into Heaven regardless of past sins, that being the entire point. Even more to the point, there is no Faith vs. Works. Faith is Works, and Works is Faith.
quote: Actually believing in Jesus, or even knowing of him, almost appears irrelevant:
quote: Christian apologists like to try to combine the two doctrines using a variety of rationalizations. And that's just the thing: there's nothing to combine; there aren't two 'doctrines', just one. Jon Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:When people cherry pick, they can come up with support for saying we are saved by faith alone or by works alone, or those who don't believe will go to hell. In Message 1, Mike referenced Paul concerning faith only.
Romans 3:22-24 (New International Version) 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. But if we look early in Romans we see Paul's mention of behavior.
Romans 2:13 (NIV) For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Paul makes interesting arguments and taking one line without the rest of the argument can cause problems. Paul's point is that faith includes turning from sin and obeying God. IOW, if someone tries to earn salvation by obeying the law without faith, they will fail. Also if anyone claims to have faith but willfully ignores God's law, they will also fail. Paul's writings don't support faith only concerning salvation. BTW, the word for hell does not show up in Paul's writings. So it is very easy for fringe elements to create support for their lunacy. Edited by purpledawn, : Hit submit too soon.
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