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Author Topic:   God created evolution
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 106 of 118 (606886)
02-28-2011 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Tram law
02-28-2011 7:08 PM


If God can create anything he needs out of thin air he doesn't need Evolution.
If God is omnipotent he does not need Evolution.
If God is omnipotent he didn't need yesterday to make today.
But I think that everyone who believes in God does to a certain extent believe that he has allowed nature to run its course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Tram law, posted 02-28-2011 7:08 PM Tram law has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 118 (606976)
03-01-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Tram law
02-28-2011 7:08 PM


Saying that God created evolutions is completely antithetical to creationism and quite possibly sophistry to boot.
I don't think so.
Because God creates everything every step of the way out of thin air in the Bible.
Except for Adam, which he uses clay. And then Eve with which he uses a part of Adam's rib.
But Evolution does not create things out of thin air like creationism does.
In Genesis 1, the earth brings forth the animals.
quote:
Gen1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so
In Genesis 2, God froms the animals out of the ground.
quote:
Gen2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
They are not created out of thin air.
But Evolution does not create things out of thin air like creationism does.
If God can create anything he needs out of thin air he doesn't need Evolution.
I wouldn't say he needed it, per se, but we can tell that it did, in fact, happen that way.
If God is omnipotent he does not need Evolution.
Or anything at all. But alas, here we are surrounded by animals that have evolved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Tram law, posted 02-28-2011 7:08 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Tram law, posted 03-01-2011 2:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4704 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 108 of 118 (607037)
03-01-2011 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by New Cat's Eye
03-01-2011 10:44 AM


Catholic Scientist writes:
Saying that God created evolutions is completely antithetical to creationism and quite possibly sophistry to boot.
I don't think so.
Because God creates everything every step of the way out of thin air in the Bible.
Except for Adam, which he uses clay. And then Eve with which he uses a part of Adam's rib.
But Evolution does not create things out of thin air like creationism does.
In Genesis 1, the earth brings forth the animals.
quote:
Gen1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so
In Genesis 2, God froms the animals out of the ground.
quote:
Gen2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
They are not created out of thin air.
But Evolution does not create things out of thin air like creationism does.
If God can create anything he needs out of thin air he doesn't need Evolution.
I wouldn't say he needed it, per se, but we can tell that it did, in fact, happen that way.
If God is omnipotent he does not need Evolution.
Or anything at all. But alas, here we are surrounded by animals that have evolved.
In which Bible? In KJV he does not form animals out of the ground.
But yes, trying to mesh two different things into one to appease people is sophistry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-01-2011 10:44 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-01-2011 2:57 PM Tram law has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 118 (607041)
03-01-2011 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Tram law
03-01-2011 2:28 PM


In which Bible? In KJV he does not form animals out of the ground.
Those quotes were from the KJV
But yes, trying to mesh two different things into one to appease people is sophistry.
Since I haven't done that, you haven't shown any sophism on my part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Tram law, posted 03-01-2011 2:28 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Tram law, posted 03-02-2011 11:40 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4704 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 110 of 118 (607175)
03-02-2011 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by New Cat's Eye
03-01-2011 2:57 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:
In which Bible? In KJV he does not form animals out of the ground.
Those quotes were from the KJV
But yes, trying to mesh two different things into one to appease people is sophistry.
Since I haven't done that, you haven't shown any sophism on my part.
Okay, you are right in the KJV does say versus like:
quote:
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
However, that is still not evolution. So yes, it is indeed sophistry to mesh the two subjects, because God is still creating them every single step of the way.
The Bible does not support Evolution, and to say it is evolution is sophistry.
But then again, it's a common Christian tactic to put a Christian spin on things in order to take credit for it, especially if something is very popular and can not be beaten down by Christianity.
For it to be evolution, the Bible has to explicitly say it's evolution. Otherwise, it's an interpretation of ambiguous language that can be interpreted any way a person wants to.
Edited by Tram law, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-01-2011 2:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-02-2011 12:55 PM Tram law has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 118 (607192)
03-02-2011 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Tram law
03-02-2011 11:40 AM


However, that is still not evolution.
Not exactly, no. But forming animals from the earth and having them bring forth from thier kind is a lot closer to evolution than the poofing out of thin air that you were trying to have it be.
So yes, it is indeed sophistry to mesh the two subjects, because God is still creating them every single step of the way.
Its a lot less of a sophistication than you are trying to make it. And god is not creating them every step of the way if they bring forth from their own kind.
But then again, it's a common Christian tactic to put a Christian spin on things in order to take credit for it, especially if something is very popular and can not be beaten down by Christianity.
And its a common anti-christian tactic to try to make it look worse than it actually is. But that's neither here nor there, is it?
For it to be evolution, the Bible has to explicitly say it's evolution. Otherwise, it's an interpretation of ambiguous language that can be interpreted any way a person wants to.
Well hold on... if I can interpret it any way I want then it doesn't have to explicitly say it's evolution
But anyways, its not so much the meshing of the Bible with evolution so that the creation story supports evolution as it is realizing that the creation story doesn't necessarily contradict an evolutionary process. I don't see that as sophistry.
The Bible does not support Evolution, and to say it is evolution is sophistry.
I'll need to see the actual supposed sophism, of arguing the Bible is saying evolution, to know what you're talking about here and if I agree with you.
Are you referring to something specific or just sayin'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Tram law, posted 03-02-2011 11:40 AM Tram law has not replied

  
Purpledbear
Member (Idle past 4771 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 112 of 118 (607286)
03-02-2011 11:16 PM


The problem with idiots is they always believe they are right and they do not want to be perceived as stupid.
The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming today only a stupid person would deny it.
In non ambiguous terms the bible clearly says animals popped out of the earth and matured in 7 days. It makes no mention of evolution.
==============================
Forgetting that for a moment:
Where do rainbows come from? God did it!
Why does it rain? God makes it
How did a ball of fire get in the sky? God did it
That is how I Aced all my tests when my parents forced me to go to a Christian school.
=============================
Over the last 100 years no super duper sacred document written by Jesus/God himself has been found stating evolution is true. Prior to the 1800's/early 1900s not much evidence had been discovered to prove that god did not do it(Evolution is true). Therefore it was only logical to believe god did do it. However, over the last 100 years so much evidence has been found which demonstrates evolution is true only a stupid person would deny it.
===========================
Idiots can not admit they are/were wrong nor do they want to be perceived as stupid. Logically speaking the best thing they can(and do.... do) is say God did it.
===========================

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4704 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 113 of 118 (607509)
03-04-2011 10:15 AM


The sophism is the meshing of the two subjects into one in order to purposefully confuse the matter in order to appease a broad populace.
And that the specific claim is that "the Bible states that God created Evolution to create life and that caused the earth to being forth the animals".
And the Bible does not explicitly or specifically say such a thing. It is actually fairly ambiguous on the matter in that it does not explicitly describe the mechanism on which God uses to create life. Any conclusion is an interpretation that really can not be verified.
It is all based on personal interpretation. And all personal interpretation is based on one's own prejudices and interests.
For instance, we could claim that God is simply converting energy into matter so that he can cause the earth to bring forth the Animals. And therefore disproves the theory of evolution.
And there are many more ways to interpret the passages. There is an old saying around my neck of the woods. You get a hundred different people and a hundred different people will give a hundred different interpretations of the scripture, and each and every single one of the will think that they and only they can be right and nobody else can be right.

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-04-2011 10:34 AM Tram law has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 118 (607514)
03-04-2011 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Tram law
03-04-2011 10:15 AM


The sophism is the meshing of the two subjects into one in order to purposefully confuse the matter in order to appease a broad populace.
Do you have an example?
And that the specific claim is that "the Bible states that God created Evolution to create life and that caused the earth to being forth the animals".
I haven't seen that.
And the Bible does not explicitly or specifically say such a thing. It is actually fairly ambiguous on the matter in that it does not explicitly describe the mechanism on which God uses to create life. Any conclusion is an interpretation that really can not be verified.
It is all based on personal interpretation. And all personal interpretation is based on one's own prejudices and interests.
For instance, we could claim that God is simply converting energy into matter so that he can cause the earth to bring forth the Animals. And therefore disproves the theory of evolution.
And there are many more ways to interpret the passages. There is an old saying around my neck of the woods. You get a hundred different people and a hundred different people will give a hundred different interpretations of the scripture, and each and every single one of the will think that they and only they can be right and nobody else can be right.
So, you're assuming a sophistic argument has been made so that you can call it sophistic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Tram law, posted 03-04-2011 10:15 AM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Tram law, posted 03-04-2011 10:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4704 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 115 of 118 (607517)
03-04-2011 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by New Cat's Eye
03-04-2011 10:34 AM


Catholic Scientist writes:
The sophism is the meshing of the two subjects into one in order to purposefully confuse the matter in order to appease a broad populace.
Do you have an example?
And that the specific claim is that "the Bible states that God created Evolution to create life and that caused the earth to being forth the animals".
I haven't seen that.
And the Bible does not explicitly or specifically say such a thing. It is actually fairly ambiguous on the matter in that it does not explicitly describe the mechanism on which God uses to create life. Any conclusion is an interpretation that really can not be verified.
It is all based on personal interpretation. And all personal interpretation is based on one's own prejudices and interests.
For instance, we could claim that God is simply converting energy into matter so that he can cause the earth to bring forth the Animals. And therefore disproves the theory of evolution.
And there are many more ways to interpret the passages. There is an old saying around my neck of the woods. You get a hundred different people and a hundred different people will give a hundred different interpretations of the scripture, and each and every single one of the will think that they and only they can be right and nobody else can be right.
So, you're assuming a sophistic argument has been made so that you can call it sophistic?
A: Please don't play games with me and please don't put words in my mouth. I'm not playing games with you.
B: That's the subject of the entire thread. The title of it is "God created Evolution". If you haven't seen it then you're just playing games.
Edit:
Here's an essay to read. It's about the pope's statements on Evolution:
The Vatican's View of Evolution: Pope Paul II and Pope Pius
However, it is indeed my personal beliefs that evolution is antithetical to creationism.
Edited by Tram law, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-04-2011 10:34 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-04-2011 11:59 AM Tram law has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 118 (607528)
03-04-2011 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Tram law
03-04-2011 10:48 AM


I don't debate links, if you can quote some examples of sophistry in there, I'll disuss it with you.
The thread title is not the argument, if you can quote some sophistry in the OP, or this thread, then I will discuss them with you.
I have not seen any example of sophistry except for the arguments you made up that look to be designed to be sophisticated in the first place. You seem to be suggesting that any argumetn that allows for both a creation and an evolution must be a sophism and I disagree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Tram law, posted 03-04-2011 10:48 AM Tram law has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4704 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 117 of 118 (607553)
03-04-2011 2:16 PM


Spoken like a true Christian.

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 118 (607558)
03-04-2011 2:29 PM



  
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