Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?

Hi Buz,I'd like a single post with all the chariot wheel evidence, so let me be more specific this time.Please provide the following information:

• Photographs of the chariot wheels.
• Videos of the chariot wheels (links are okay).
• Current location (museum, laboratory, etc.) of any chariot wheels recovered from the sea floor.
• Expert's names and analyses indicating that they're chariot wheels and not something else, such as natural formations, coral-encrusted pleasure boat steering wheels, etc.
• If expert analyses indicate these are ancient chariot wheels, then provide expert's names and analyses indicating the chariot wheels are from the appropriate period and region.

Edited by Admin, : Clarification.

---

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Ballard's Black Sea research has yet to get permission to date his scientific researched discovery of civilization in the Black Sea.

quote:

---

If Ballard’s team gets permission from the Turkish government, they may take a sample of the wood for dating. This would not only confirm the date of the structure, but help to establish a more precise date for when the flooding of the Black Sea took place.

---

Mollart, like Ballard, are limited as to how much data can be fully researched to the extent that they would desire, relative to the guarded Mountain and to the sea research.Yet renowned geologists Ryan & Putnam have elevated their take on the incomplete research to the status of theory. They waive off any possible relation of the discovery as supportive to the Biblical flood.

quote:

---

Columbia University geologists William Ryan and Walter Pitman wondered what could explain the preponderance of flood legends. Their theory: As the Ice Age ended and glaciers melted, a wall of seawater surged from the Mediterranean into the Black Sea.
During the Ice Age, Ryan and Pitman argue, the Black Sea was an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland.

​

About 12,000 years ago, toward the end of the Ice Age, Earth began growing warmer. Vast sheets of ice that sprawled over the Northern Hemisphere began to melt. Oceans and seas grew deeper as a result.

​

About 7,000 years ago the Mediterranean Sea swelled. Seawater pushed northward, slicing through what is now Turkey.

​

Funneled through the narrow Bosporus, the water hit the Black Sea with 200 times the force of Niagara Falls. Each day the Black Sea rose about six inches (15 centimeters), and coastal farms were flooded.

​

Seared into the memories of terrified survivors, the tale of the flood was passed down through the generations and eventually became the Noah story.

---

Robert Ballard, the National Geographic, along with geologists Ryan & Putnam have expressed no interest in falsifying the phenomenal evidence widely alleged pertaining to Lennart Moller's Exodus research. Unlike Putnam, Lennart Moller makes no claims of theory or of his research being empirical. His attitude is to provide the evidence and let the viewers and readers of his research be the jury as to whether his work is credible.I can see where this thread is going. It's going as I had expected, no matter how much evidence I cite.In the past eight years, I am not aware of Admin openly siding with the skeptics as admin, extending authoritative active debate on behalf of the pack of skeptics, dogging the lone spokesman advocating the other side of the debate.I understand that the secularists have a huge stake in this debate. So do I. it is clear how the pack's consensus will see to it in the future as to who prevails as the conceived winner of this debate. I'm not claiming winner ship, nor am I admitting defeat. I have produce supportive evidence, for what it's worth to whoever.Like Moller, imo, it's time to let objective readers, be they members or visitors, to be the jury, reviewing the arguments and making their own respective judgment as to whether any evidence has been presented supportive to the Exodus.As to all that Admin is requiring, it appears to be more than geologists Putnam et al have been required for their acclaimed scientific theory. Therefore, Like Ballard, Ryan and Putnam all I can say is what I've cited is all that I have at this time.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

You do understand that the research on the Black Sea flooding is yet more evidence that the Biblical Flood never happened don't you?So where is there any evidence of those alleged wheels?

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Both have corroborative evidence. Yes. Both also lack some research which should disallow both from claiming the status of theory.Btw, the clip which I provided shows Mollar's scientific method of falsification. He researched the Red Sea topography in the region of the long acclaimed traditional Mt Sinai, finding it much deeper and more rugged, lacking any corroborative evidence.Thus he falsified it as a possibility, leaving the Nuweiba site being more shallow and having the corroborating evidence supportive to the Biblical record.

Again Buz, simply claiming that you have corroborating evidence does not mean that you have any corroborating evidence.There actually IS evidence that the Black Sea was flooded and ther actually is evidence that totally refutes the Biblical Flood.Now it is your opportunity to present some evidence. For example, where is there ANY evidence that there are any chariot wheels and that they are related to the alleged Exodus?

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Regarding corroborating evidence for the Biblical flood at the Nuweiba site, let me repeat that I would like all corroborating evidence related to the chariot wheels at that site placed in a single message, specifically:

• Photographs of the chariot wheels.
• Videos of the chariot wheels (links are okay).
• Current location (museum, laboratory, etc.) of any chariot wheels recovered from the sea floor.
• Expert's names and analyses indicating that they're chariot wheels and not something else, such as natural formations, coral-encrusted pleasure boat steering wheels, etc.
• If expert analyses indicate these are ancient chariot wheels, then provide expert's names and analyses indicating the chariot wheels are from the appropriate period and region.

---

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

quote:

---

Ballard's Black Sea research has yet to get permission to date his scientific researched discovery of civilization in the Black Sea.

---

So a report. more than ten years old says that Ballard needed to get permission to take a sample for dating a structure.

quote:

---

Mollart, like Ballard, are limited as to how much data can be fully researched to the extent that they would desire, relative to the guarded Mountain and to the sea research.

---

Moller does not need permission to measure the coral formations or to identify the species - or simply put a scale down while taking photographs of them ! Nor does he need permission to actually do some basic research into Egyptology rather than spouting Wyatt's nonsense !

quote:

---

Yet renowned geologists Ryan & Putnam have elevated their take on the incomplete research to the status of theory. They waive off any possible relation of the discovery as supportive to the Biblical flood.

---

That is using "theory" in the common sense rather than the strict scientific sense. And, of course, the dating evidence from the structure would only be one piece of evidence - it's absence (if it is still absent) does not tell you much about the strength of the evidence that they DO have. And other than a possible origin for the myth (in a large local disaster) there was never much connection with the Bible story.

quote:

---

Robert Ballard, the National Geographic, along with geologists Ryan & Putnam have expressed no interest in falsifying the phenomenal evidence widely alleged pertaining to Lennart Moller's Exodus research.

---

And we can see why. There's no significant evidence that there's anything WORTH investigating.

quote:

---

Unlike Putnam, Lennart Moller makes no claims of theory or of his research being empirical. His attitude is to provide the evidence and let the viewers and readers of his research be the jury as to whether his work is credible.

---

Sure - it isn't credible, for many reasons.

quote:

---

I can see where this thread is going. It's going as I had expected, no matter how much evidence I cite.

---

It's going the way it is because you DON'T HAVE any significant evidence.

quote:

---

In the past eight years, I am not aware of Admin openly siding with the skeptics as admin, extending authoritative active debate on behalf of the pack of skeptics, dogging the lone spokesman advocating the other side of the debate.

---

In other words you are whining because Admin has asked you to produce SIGNIFICANT evidence - evidence that you do not have.

quote:

---

I understand that the secularists have a huge stake in this debate. So do I. it is clear how the pack's consensus will see to it in the future as to who prevails as the conceived winner of this debate. I'm not claiming winner ship, nor am I admitting defeat. I have produce supportive evidence, for what it's worth to whoever.

---

I don't have a huge stake in the debate. An interest in honesty and truthfulness is my main interest. And I see an absence of that in Wyatt and Moller's claims.

quote:

---

Like Moller, imo, it's time to let objective readers, be they members or visitors, to be the jury, reviewing the arguments and making their own respective judgment as to whether any evidence has been presented supportive to the Exodus.

---

No objective observer will think you have much of a case.

quote:

---

As to all that Admin is requiring, it appears to be more than geologists Putnam et al have been required for their acclaimed scientific theory. Therefore, Like Ballard, Ryan and Putnam all I can say is what I've cited is all that I have at this time.

---

And now you are being dishonest again. Even the article you cite has better: And what is in doubt is the date: The discovery of a building - even undated - certainly adds evidence that the area was once above water.Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

I have no stake in this debate. I would love to see evidence of the Exodus, the Flood, Bigfoot, alien abductions, etc. The world is full of weird and wonderful things and inquiring minds are eager to know them if they are supported by evidence.But all your video shows is wishful thinking. "This is what a coral formation would look like if I drew chariot wheels on it."If Moller was interested in serious research, he could/should/would have documented the (supposed) debris field photographically and mapped every (suspected) artifact for future reference. At the very, very least, he could/should/would have put something in the picture to show the scale. How do we know that those coral formations are the right size to be chariot wheels? How do we know they aren't one foot in diameter or twelve feet in diameter?It isn't a matter of skeptics being too skeptical. It's a matter of you being far too credulous. By all means, lets find evidence to support Bible history but not by jumping on the bandwagon of every charlatan who's out to sell a video.

---

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This sounds like an excuse about 'Why there isn't any evidence', rather than providing evidence.The funny thing is that a camp site from a thousand years earlier can be preserved, yet, the camp sites for 2 million people over a 40 year period all get eroded away.Tell me, how can that be?

Sigh.. you don't read your bible, now do you.Remember, the reason they were alllowed to settle down is that all the old generation died, and a new generation brought up in freedom is there.

It doesn't matter, I'm granting you this as evidence for the sake of argument. No, this is where you're wrong. Its a common misunderstanding. You're assuming causation from the correlation. You have not eliminated any other possibilities. It is a post hoc rationalization of something neat that you've found.It is not scientific.For example:
I thought I could control the weather with my dancing. I did a rain dance yesterday, and today it rained.According to you, that would be supportive evidence of the legitimacy of my Rain Dance.It is not.I have not ruled out other possibilities as the cause of the rain.

What makes you think Ballard et. al are even aware of Moller's "research"?

---

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

What does "phenomenal evidence widely alleged pertaining to Lennart Moller's Exodus research" even mean?

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Two things. I assume you mean the Gulf of Suez, and not the region of "traditional" Mt. Sinai. because if the latter, no depth could be researched, since it is, you know, not under water.Second, according to this map: The Gulf of Suez is less deep than the Gulf of Aqaba, making your claim (or rather, Moeller's) false, regardless of what region you meant.

Even if that was true, it isn't a falsification. There's nothing in the Biblical account that suggests a "land bridge". There's nothing about the depth of the water at all.Making up a fictional shallow spot does nothing but diminish the extent of the miracle. God could have given the Israelites a dry path through the Mariana Trench if He wanted to.

---

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"