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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 226 of 657 (602605)
01-29-2011 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 9:01 AM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
Buzsaw writes:
We have the debris and all of the corroborating observable evidence that I have cited supportive to the Biblical account of the event.
Debris? What debris? You have never showed any debris. You've showed coral that you claim is debris. That's not debris. All you other "supportive" evidence has been dealt with as well.
We deduce from that the knowledge of the erosive energy of a tsunami wash back from the walls of water.
If this is what happened you wouldn't have any debris left either. Do you have any idea how much force it would take to dig out a 700m deep trench in one go by water rushing over it?
We also have significant evidence for the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah such as the fulfilled prophecies, historical data and archeology, etc.
No you don't. Though you claim you do all the time.
The notable Josephus is an example of a non-Biblical historian who acknowledges the Biblical flood event happening some 2500 years before his time.
So? Has he got any evidence for that? Thought not.
Time and again I've cited these things. Yet to a person, you skeptics keep on keeping on harping that Buzsaw has never ever produced one iota of credible evidence for the Biblical record, the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah and particularly the Exodus event. Time and time again ye skeptics keep on demanding that Buzsaw produce some evidence, as you have here, but when I do, it is all simply waived off.
You could take this as a hint, and instead of complaining, produce some actual evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 9:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Dirk
Member (Idle past 4023 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 227 of 657 (602606)
01-29-2011 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 9:01 AM


There Is No Evidence
Hi Buzsaw,
Time and again I've cited these things. Yet to a person, you skeptics keep on keeping on harping that Buzsaw has never ever produced one iota of credible evidence for the Biblical record, the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah and particularly the Exodus event. Time and time again ye skeptics keep on demanding that Buzsaw produce some evidence, as you have here, but when I do, it is all simply waived off.
The fact that your "evidence" is refuted time and again should make you think. Did you ever consider (and are you willing to consider) the possibility that this happens because the exodus simply did not happen and there is no evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 9:01 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 5:08 PM Dirk has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 228 of 657 (602608)
01-29-2011 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 9:01 AM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
Buzsaw writes:
We have the debris and all of the corroborating observable evidence that I have cited supportive to the Biblical account of the event.
Even if you did have any evidence from the Nuweiba site available for testing, it's still in the wrong place. Nuweiba doesn't come close to fitting the Biblical account.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 9:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 229 of 657 (602614)
01-29-2011 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 9:01 AM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
quote:
We have the debris and all of the corroborating observable evidence that I have cited supportive to the Biblical account of the event.
In other words you are back to claiming that you have strong evidence that the coral formations contain chariot wheels. When are you going to produce this evidence ?
The "evidence" that you have produced has been rebutted and shown to be virtually worthless.
quote:
We deduce from that the knowledge of the erosive energy of a tsunami wash back from the walls of water.
That's begging the question. The starting point was your claim that Nuweiba was shallower than more northerly crossings, and therefore the Nuweiba site should be preferred. Now that has been shown to be utterly false you retreated to assuming that Nuweiba was shallow but deepened by this "tsunami" - with no evidence that such an event actually occurred there. Or any evidence that it would actually make a lot of difference (you'd need to remove hundreds of metres of rock - and I don't think that is on the cards at all).
quote:
We also have significant evidence for the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah such as the fulfilled prophecies, historical data and archeology, etc.
Buz, this IS your supposed archaeological evidence that we are discussing right here ! And your "fulfilled prophecies" always seem to involve misrepresenting the Bible. If you have any historical data that actually proves the existence of any sort of God you haven't shown that either.
quote:
The notable Josephus is an example of a non-Biblical historian who acknowledges the Biblical flood event happening some 2500 years before his time.
I don't know why you call Josephus a "non-Biblical historian". Josephus was a devout Jew and his endorsement of Biblical stories is not worth much. A historian is no better than his sources and his use of his sources. What sources did Josephus have for the Flood outside of the Bible and stories derived from the Bible ?
quote:
Time and again I've cited these things. Yet to a person, you skeptics keep on keeping on harping that Buzsaw has never ever produced one iota of credible evidence for the Biblical record, the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah and particularly the Exodus event. Time and time again ye skeptics keep on demanding that Buzsaw produce some evidence, as you have here, but when I do, it is all simply waived off.
It's not the skeptics fault that you can't be bothered to critically examine your own evidence. It's not the skeptics fault that you don't know (or apparently care) what the Bible says. It's not the skeptic's fault that you haven't got any evidence worth mentioning. So quit whining and try to do better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 9:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Asgara, posted 01-29-2011 12:17 PM PaulK has not replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 230 of 657 (602617)
01-29-2011 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by PaulK
01-29-2011 12:03 PM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
I want to know how Buz can claim underwater debris (chariot wheels) at Nuweiba and at the same time claim a tsunami deepened the channel. Wouldn't this supposed tsunami have also taken any chariot parts with it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by PaulK, posted 01-29-2011 12:03 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by bluescat48, posted 01-29-2011 12:22 PM Asgara has not replied
 Message 240 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 6:07 PM Asgara has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 231 of 657 (602620)
01-29-2011 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Asgara
01-29-2011 12:17 PM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
Yes it could have taken them from Egypt proper to Nuweiba.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Asgara, posted 01-29-2011 12:17 PM Asgara has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 232 of 657 (602633)
01-29-2011 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by bluescat48
01-28-2011 10:44 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
bluescat48 writes:
Though Mohammed gleaned distorted doctrines that suited his concocted up scripture, he never acknowledged the Biblical god, Jehovah.
Jehovah is not the Biblical god, not as Jehovah which is nothing but an English corruption of the German spelling of the Hebrew YHWH.
The German spelling is Jahveh
You can debate that with the linguists. The translators of nearly all English versions of the Bible used Jehovah. Somewhere in the archives there's a thread on that in case you want to go there. It's off topic here.
Nor did he ever acknowledge Jehovah's favor-ability to Jacob and his 12 tribe sons who became the patriarchs of Israel over Esau, the son of Abraham's handmade, Hagar, from whom Israel's enemies descended.
Esau was Isaac's son and twin bother of Jacob, later called Israel. Hagar was Ismael's mother. And you claim to be a Bible Scholar?
You're right. I should have reviewed what I said before posting. At 75 I plead, senior moment. Perhaps some day you'll be there and do that now and then.
I've edited Message 215 for the correction.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by bluescat48, posted 01-28-2011 10:44 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by bluescat48, posted 01-29-2011 6:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 233 of 657 (602634)
01-29-2011 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Dirk
01-29-2011 10:50 AM


Re: There Is No Evidence
Dirk writes:
Hi Buzsaw,
Time and again I've cited these things. Yet to a person, you skeptics keep on keeping on harping that Buzsaw has never ever produced one iota of credible evidence for the Biblical record, the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah and particularly the Exodus event. Time and time again ye skeptics keep on demanding that Buzsaw produce some evidence, as you have here, but when I do, it is all simply waived off.
The fact that your "evidence" is refuted time and again should make you think. Did you ever consider (and are you willing to consider) the possibility that this happens because the exodus simply did not happen and there is no evidence?
LOL. I have cited more corroborating observable evidence for the acclaimed Biblical Exodus event than scientists have for the Big Bang singularity and multi-verse theory. It's a given. Folks who avoid accountability to a higher power will never acknowledge one whit of evidence supportive to such a power such as the Exodus evidence is.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Dirk, posted 01-29-2011 10:50 AM Dirk has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by PaulK, posted 01-29-2011 5:39 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 236 by jar, posted 01-29-2011 5:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 245 by Dirk, posted 01-29-2011 10:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 247 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2011 10:12 AM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 234 of 657 (602636)
01-29-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 5:08 PM


Re: There Is No Evidence
quote:
LOL. I have cited more corroborating observable evidence for the acclaimed Biblical Exodus event than scientists have for the Big Bang singularity and multi-verse theory. I
Of course you have cited nothing of significance, while there is a great amount of significant evidence for the Big Bang (e.g. the microwave background and the Hubble redshift). And you've promised evidence that you still haven't delivered - evidence that was needed years ago.
The fact is that your sources have been proven to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Their "evidence" is feeble, and they have to grossly twist and misrepresent Egyptian history to try to make it fit their beliefs. Frequently by pretending two (or more !) different people are the same person. And let us not forget Wyatt's dubious record, nor that Moller has made a gullible fool of himself by unhesitatingly believing Wyatt's nonsense.
quote:
It's a given. Folks who avoid accountability to a higher power will never acknowledge one whit of evidence supportive to such a power such as the Exodus evidence is.
So in your world the only reason people tell the truth is to defy your God. Not exactly Biblical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 5:08 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 657 (602637)
01-29-2011 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by jar
01-28-2011 10:10 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
jar writes:
Allah is the God of the Bible Buz, Jehovah is simply a mistaken translation from German.
We've debated this in the thread, YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread. over five years ago, Jar. I suggest that you go there and review that debate. If you have something new and profound there's where you can debate it with whoever cares to engage you 'til your heart's content.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by jar, posted 01-28-2011 10:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by jar, posted 01-29-2011 6:02 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 239 by Admin, posted 01-29-2011 6:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 236 of 657 (602638)
01-29-2011 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 5:08 PM


Buz again makes false claims
Buzsaw writes:
It's a given. Folks who avoid accountability to a higher power will never acknowledge one whit of evidence supportive to such a power such as the Exodus evidence is.
I'm sorry Buz but once again you are simply making false claims. The fact is that there are Christians who do not avoid accountability to some higher power but still see that you have failed to provide any evidence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 5:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 237 of 657 (602639)
01-29-2011 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 4:53 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
Been there done that, in regard to Senior Moment.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 4:53 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 238 of 657 (602640)
01-29-2011 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 5:50 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Allah is the God of the Bible Buz, Jehovah is simply a mistaken translation from German.
We've debated this in the thread, YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread. over five years ago, Jar. I suggest that you go there and review that debate. If you have something new and profound there's where you can debate it with whoever cares to engage you 'til your heart's content.
No, all the information was presented to you there and it is all still valid.
Jehovah is not the proper name of the God of the Bible.
AbE:
In addition, it is totally irrelevant to the topic. Muslims believe that Moshe is a major prophet and teh Exodus is covered in the Qur'an.
The actuality of the Exodus story is NOT related to whether or not people feel accountable to a higher power.
The Gulf of Aqaba does not meet the descriptions of the Bible and it is far too deep and steep for any crossing, either on foot or with chariots.
There would be almost no wall of water to cause some tsunami and even if it did, it would NOT cause any damage to the Gulf Basin.
The crossing you suggest is one of the shallow points, less than half as deep as the average.
You have provided no evidence that there are any chariot wheels and even if there were, it would not add weight to the Exodus myth unless you could show a direct connection to the event.
Edited by jar, : add summary data

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 5:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 239 of 657 (602641)
01-29-2011 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 5:50 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
Since it doesn't appear you've seen it yet, I'm posting this message here to let you know I sent you a PM this morning.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Buzsaw, posted 01-29-2011 5:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 240 of 657 (602643)
01-29-2011 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Asgara
01-29-2011 12:17 PM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
Asgara writes:
I want to know how Buz can claim underwater debris (chariot wheels) at Nuweiba and at the same time claim a tsunami deepened the channel. Wouldn't this supposed tsunami have also taken any chariot parts with it?
Welcome to the fray, madam queen. Thanks for weighing in.
I did allude to that some, alleging that some minimal amount of the vast amount of debris could remain visible relatively near the shore.
I've also had to revise my position that the tsunami would not necessarily be from North to South. Rather it would come from both directions, causing significant erosion in the sand bar but feasibly leaving some evidence due to the swish-swash from both directions.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Asgara, posted 01-29-2011 12:17 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Admin, posted 01-29-2011 6:21 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 242 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2011 9:03 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

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