|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 1181 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: When Earth’s population was 10,000 persons | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
CrazyDiamond7 writes: - The real fact is that regardless of disease, natural disasters, wars and famine, human population has never stopped growing. History proves that Humans are able to impede animal growth but never their own. That is assuming there was no Biblical Noahic flood. Henry Morris , in his book, the Bible Has The Answer. cites why the world population is about right, assuming Josephus's and Ussher's Noahic flood timeline.
quote: ABE: Assuming the Noahic flood, the world's population roughly 2500 years ago would have been eight. NOTE: If I understand Adminemooseus's message correctly, I'm on topic. I hope so.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Add ABE Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
I really don't see CrazyDiamond7 having invoked any sort of C. 5000 years ago human population bottleneck. Thus I see anything "Great Flood" to be off-topic.
If you wish to discuss the worlds human population as having started from your post flood time and numbers, please propose a new topic. Adminnemooseus
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
|
No, CrazyDiamond7 does not mention YEC nor the Flood nor uses the YEC timeframe. But he is still making the same fundamental mistake that Henry Morris made and that YECs who use the "Bunny Blunder" still make: assuming a pure-birth population growth model. Because of that, comparisons between CrazyDiamond's opening message and the YEC "Bunny Blunder" are inevitable.
Pure-birth is the simplest population growth model and assumes that there is nothing that will limit the population; eg, that there is an unlimited amount of food and unlimited space. It is therefore the least accurate model to try to apply to actual populations in the wild. A better model would be the logistics model in which the population size is limited by the environment's carrying capacity, the maximum population size that it can support. Changes in human technology and society can change the carrying capacity, which is what we see as having happened. A population can be held at its limit indefinitely. In addition, events such as famine and plagues can cause changes in a population's growth rate, even causing it to reverse itself. Pure birth does not take such events into account; neither does the logistics model. The term "Bunny Blunder" refers to the exercise of applying Henry Morris' human population model to bunny rabbits, such that it can be shown that the current world population of rabbits had to have arisen from two bunnies 100 years ago. It has also been shown that applying Morris' model to certain dates in the ancient past has ridiculously small work forces available to have built the pyramids of Egypt (about 150 for the Great Pyramid, even fewer for the preceding ones built over the previous centuries), and that a world population of about 10, including women and children, had to rush madly between Crete and the Indus River Valley building and abandoning enough large cities, monuments, and major civil engineering structures to make it appear that there had been millions of people. Morris' claims are examined and discussed in the article, Creationists, Population Growth, Bunnies, and the Great Pyramid (by David H. Milne, Creation/Evolution Journal Vol. 4, No. 4, Fall 1984, pp 1-5). I also researched several of Morris' developments of his model. He didn't know what he was talking about. As a hydraulic engineer, he could play with the math, but he was clueless about the right model to apply that math to. Discussion of the "Bunny Blunder" in terms of the YEC claim would of course be off-topic. But I do not think that to be the case when it's regarding choosing the correct model(s) for human population growth. Edited by dwise1, : added disclaimer
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Many of us have been in this debate long enough to see the hidden implication of the OP. We're not stupid.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Many of us have been in this debate long enough to see the hidden implication of the OP. We're not stupid. Argue the position, not the person. And if hes not YEC, and doesn't care about the Flud, then yes you are stupid.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
True. But having been in the fray so long, they all start to look the same to us. We tend to forget that there is indeed a fairly wide variety of creationism and that not all creationists are YECs. At the same time, though, even many of those non-YEC creationists will still read the YEC literature and try to use YEC claims, such as the Bunny Blunder. So addressing the claim should still be on-topic.
When I posted last night, I couldn't find my reference for population models; I still can't. However, I did reference it in a couple pages that were on my website before my webhost abruptly dropped out of the business. It is:
Michael Olnick, An Introduction to Mathematical Models in the Social and Life Sciences, 1978, Addison-Wesley Publishing Co. Here is what I wrote on population models on my old page on the Bunny Blunder, which I originally wrote for the library on CompuServe in 1991:
quote: We know with total certaintude that Buz' model is dead wrong, because he explicitly identifies it as H. Morris' model. We recognize CrazyDiamond's model as pure-birth, which we know to be far too simplistic to be able to model reality and hence is wrong.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
quote: May I ask from where you quoted this?
If Humans lived on Earth 100 thousand years ago then which factors would have impeded the population to grow from 10,000 to 1 million inhabitants during a single season of 20 thousand years? You'll find this question largely answered in the pages of any introductory Anthropology text book. After looking there, you should come back and tell us what you find and why you may disagree with it. Jon Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
goldenlightArchangel Member (Idle past 1181 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
-
Coyote writes:
... that fully modern humans were around 30,000
-
Older versions of Prototypes are always made first and evaluated for a timebefore a new product of advanced technology can be produced in pairs. If you had the advanced technology for the production of a different kind of Human beings,
Would not the first pairs produced be prototypes designed andmade for temporary evaluation until you come up with the more perfect ones ? quote: - Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update Mellow is the man who knows the dreams he's been mislead from, Many many men can't see the road is open to new insights
'Many' is a word (that is *name of whom) only leaves you guessin' - (* Legion; to be many) Guessin’ bout a thing one really ought not to prejudge; you really ought to know. Many teachings are a camouflaged word named theory; that only leaves you guessin'
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Older versions of Prototypes are always made first and evaluated for a time before a new product of advanced technology can be produced in pairs. If you had the advanced technology for the production of a different kind of Human beings,
Would not the first pairs produced be prototypes designed andmade for temporary evaluation until you come up with the more perfect ones ? quote: Were this the case, however, wouldn't the resulting situation of left-behind prototypes be a situation indistinguishable from what would result from ancestry? Jon Edited by Jon, : wording Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
goldenlightArchangel Member (Idle past 1181 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
-
Jon writes: Were this the case, however, wouldn't the resulting situation of left-behind prototypes be a situation indistinguishable from what would result from ancestry? - Of course, they would (be indistinguishable) There’s a way one ascertain and know that a human skeleton dated from 30,000 years ago pertained to a human prototype and has nothing to do with ancestry,
One ascertains this knowledge from the existence of permanent non-miscegenation on the Earth during the precise time when each distinct ethnic group came to exist; 1. The fact that every distinct pattern of ethnic group corresponds to a precise area and to a defined land from all over the lands and regions of the Earth,2. clears up that the ethnic groups living in their respective land did not come to exist on the Earth all by themselves, 3. that is, they were settled to live in their land, (a fact that was highlighted twice in the books of the Ancients); because, under other circumstances 55 dispersions of ethnic groups in Europe would not come to exist; there would be miscegenation even before they could become ethnic groups. All of non-Russian Europe fits into the map of Brazil where miscegenation occurs. - Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update Mellow is the man who knows the dreams he's been mislead from, Many many men can't see the road is open to new insights
'Many' is a word (that is *name of whom) only leaves you guessin' - (* Legion; to be many) Guessin’ bout a thing one really ought not to prejudge; you really ought to know. Many teachings are a camouflaged word named theory; that only leaves you guessin'
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2135 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Your ideas about races and their origins are in error.
The classical races are adaptations to the environment (first), and based on descent groups (second). Doesn't matter what any ancient myths say. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Jon writes: Were this the case, however, wouldn't the resulting situation of left-behind prototypes be a situation indistinguishable from what would result from ancestry? - Of course, they would (be indistinguishable) Then what have you to offer other than an alternative explanation of the same evidence? What has been left that should make us favor your model over the other one?
There’s a way one ascertain and know that a human skeleton dated from 30,000 years ago pertained to a human prototype and has nothing to do with ancestry,
One ascertains this knowledge from the existence of permanent and total lack of miscegenation on the Earth during the precise time when each distinct ethnic group came to exist; 1. The fact that every distinct pattern of ethnic group corresponds to a precise area and to a defined land from all over the lands and regions of the Earth,2. clears up that the ethnic groups living in their respective land did not come to exist on the Earth all by themselves, 3. that is, they were settled to live in their land, (a fact that was highlighted twice in the books of the Ancients); 4. because, under other circumstances, 55 distinct patterns of ethnic groups of Europe would not come to exist; there would be miscegenation even before they could become ethnic groups. All of non-Russian Europe fits into the map of Brazil where miscegenation occurs. Your list of chantings makes little sense to anyone. How about evidence we can actually understand. Jon Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4218 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
55 distinct patterns of ethnic groups of Europe would not come to exist; Where do you come up with 55 ethnic groups? There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
goldenlightArchangel Member (Idle past 1181 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
Jon writes:
..evidence we can actually understand
-
It's understandable and it's clear now, the only possibility that the 55 dispersions of ethnic groups in Europe came into existence, as linguistic ethnic groups, is that they were previously selected and settled in their respective land, (in their respective area in Europe); For, under other circumstances, a miscegenation would have taken place (if the ancient people, in Europe, were all by themselves as the natural selection theory has proposed), And they would not have come to exist as different ethnic groups, not even as linguistic ethnic groups. Now it's clear,If the 55 dispersions of ethnic groups had not been previously selected and settled in the land and if their selection would have taken place all by themselves, there wouldn't be ethnic groups in Europe; they would be one miscegenated people. - AlbaniansArmenians Aromanians Belarusians Ethnic groups in Belgium Bosnia and Herzegovina/Bosnian Bosniaks Bosniak diaspora Lists of British people Bulgarians Bulgarian diaspora Celts Cossacks Crimean Tatars Croats Croatian diaspora Czech diaspora Estonian diaspora Finnish diaspora French diaspora Gaelic festivals Georgians German people Germanic peoples Expulsion of Germans Greek diaspora Greeks Igbo people Irish diaspora Irish people Italian ethnicity Lists of Italians Italian diaspora Macedonian diaspora organisations Macedonian Diaspora Montenegrins Dutch diaspora Ethnic groups in the Netherlands Polish diaspora Polish American Portuguese diaspora Roma diaspora Romanians Russian diaspora Scottish ethnicity Serbs Serbian diaspora Serbs infobox Slovenes Spanish people Lists of Swedes Swiss diaspora Turks Ukrainians Ukrainian diaspora quote: Europe is not so big; people take a walk and then they are spread all over the lands and far away - Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update Mellow is the man who knows the dreams he's been mislead from, Many many men can't see the road is open to new insights
'Many' is a word (that is *name of whom) only leaves you guessin' - (* Legion; to be many) Guessin’ bout a thing one really ought not to prejudge; you really ought to know. Many teachings are a camouflaged word named theory; that only leaves you guessin'
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2135 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
How do you explain the several hundred different Native American languages in California?
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024