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Author Topic:   Evolving the Musculoskeletal System
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 208 of 527 (579386)
09-04-2010 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by ICdesign
09-04-2010 12:05 PM


Re: Seeking to understand basis for incredulity
ICDESIGN writes:
Crashfrog writes:
But there's no such law.
I'm trying hard not to laugh without success.
I can't even respond to this post without attacking your intelligence so I'll just leave it alone.
You lost me there as well. What Law?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by ICdesign, posted 09-04-2010 12:05 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 233 of 527 (579645)
09-05-2010 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by ICdesign
09-05-2010 11:11 AM


Re: closing thoughts
ICDESIGN writes:
Evolution claims changes come as a result of selective pressures. One of the things that strikes me is that changes that would result from these "pressures" happen at such a slow rate, by the time the thousands of years (or more) transpire into the resulting changes everything has drastically changed making the reasons the changes happened void.
Part of the problem there is your thinking that there was a goal for the changes. There isn't. It is also a continuous process. The result is just what we see, stuff that i just good enough to get by.
The reason bones fit in their sockets is really simple, critters born with bones that don't fit in the sockets die off and do not pass on their genes.
The critters that are born with something that is just a little better than the rest of the population over time come to dominate the population.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by ICdesign, posted 09-05-2010 11:11 AM ICdesign has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 262 of 527 (581632)
09-16-2010 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:39 PM


Re: Round two
The topic, in case you missed it, involves evolving the Musculoskeletal System.
The first life and in fact most life even today is unrelated to the topic.
However, embryology certainly should help you. The Musculoskeletal System evolved from undifferentiated cells over time.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 261 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:39 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 303 of 527 (581833)
09-17-2010 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by ICdesign
09-17-2010 6:32 PM


Speaking to you as a Christian and certainly not someone in rebellion against my maker, once again you are simply wrong.
I will once again present you with a few quotes from the Clergy Project letter, signed by over 12,000 Christian Clergy.
quote:
We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as one theory among others is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children.
quote:
We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.
quote:
We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge.
The Theory of Evolution is not only the best explanation for the Musculoskeletal System, it is the only model out there.
I understand that YOU see some conflict and that this is a threat to your belief, and if so, then use whatever is needed to support your weak faith and as Paul suggests, as a Christian I will "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters."
I will though pray for your enlightenment and that your hubris be forgiven.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by ICdesign, posted 09-17-2010 6:32 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 315 of 527 (584319)
10-01-2010 10:47 AM


what is the place of peer review?
I have always looked on peer review as but the first and least rigorous step in verification. It's the chance to get someone else to look over your material and see if you made some really stupid and gross error. It is more a matter of "proof reading" for the logic and content than anything else.
Peer review is the baby step before something gets tossed into the lions den of challenge. It is only after publishing that the real tests come, when the body of sciences examine the paper, try to refute the paper, try to confirm the results.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 388 of 527 (599358)
01-06-2011 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by ICdesign
01-06-2011 3:04 PM


ICDESIGN, please consider the facts
ICDESIGN writes:
Percy writes:
The reason we teach evolution in science class is because it has been put on so solid a scientific footing that it has become almost universally accepted within the relevant scientific community.
Oh please. It is only accepted by those who don't want to be accountable to God.
You keep repeating that even after it gets refuted time after time.
I am a Christian accountable to God.
The Clergy Letter is currently signed by 13,000 Clergy that believe themselves accountable to God.
You need to stop repeating that it is somehow related to religion or God.
Edited by jar, : fix subtitle

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 397 of 527 (599418)
01-07-2011 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by Blue Jay
01-07-2011 11:18 AM


Evolution never built anything on purpose.
That is, I believe, the real sticking point. Many people would like to think that humans in particular are some desired outcome. That is of course, supported by most religious creation stories, whether we are talking about the Judaic God, Apsu, Tu-Chai-Pai or Crow; they have some initiator that purposely creates individual critters.
But that is also totally irrelevant to the question of how a musculature and skeletal system evolved.
The answer to that question is really very simple. The things that did not work did not live long enough to reproduce.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Blue Jay, posted 01-07-2011 11:18 AM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 409 of 527 (599448)
01-07-2011 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Huntard
01-07-2011 1:53 PM


Getting through the eye of the needle.
One of the neat things about Evolution is that there is not just one Mr. Chance, there are billions and billions of them. And the results of all those experiments get filtered and those that work, even just barely work, pass through the filter. It is only those that simply don't work at all that get filtered out. Even the experiments that don't really do anything get through the filter as long as they are not so bad that they prevent the critter from living long enough to reproduce.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 408 by Huntard, posted 01-07-2011 1:53 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 416 of 527 (599515)
01-08-2011 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by ICdesign
01-08-2011 11:32 AM


It's about models.
Which is fine, but until you can present a model that explains what is seen better than the current model, you have nothing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by ICdesign, posted 01-08-2011 11:32 AM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 433 of 527 (599543)
01-08-2011 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Percy
01-08-2011 3:25 PM


Remember that ICDESIGN also said "One living cell is more complex than the space shuttle. " in Message 136 so a "little bacteria mutation" should be an example of a complex system evolving without intelligence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 432 by Percy, posted 01-08-2011 3:25 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 456 of 527 (599655)
01-09-2011 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by ICdesign
01-09-2011 4:21 PM


ICDESIGN writes:
Does your heart have an intentional purpose?
Nope.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 455 by ICdesign, posted 01-09-2011 4:21 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 504 of 527 (599981)
01-11-2011 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by ICdesign
01-11-2011 6:40 PM


How did God do it?
ICdesign writes:
Not the details of the truth but the bottom line of the truth is really so very simple.... God did it.
How did God do it? It is the details that Science is examining.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 501 by ICdesign, posted 01-11-2011 6:40 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 512 of 527 (600133)
01-12-2011 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Percy
01-12-2011 5:41 PM


Re: The Beginnings of Bone
If someone has access This paper on the Evolution of Bone might be interesting.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Percy, posted 01-12-2011 5:41 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by Percy, posted 01-12-2011 6:42 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 514 of 527 (600138)
01-12-2011 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by Percy
01-12-2011 6:42 PM


Re: The Beginnings of Bone
It also appears that bones and skeletons may have been a later development, that calcium based hard surfaces may have first developed externally with cartilage taking the place of bones internally.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Percy, posted 01-12-2011 6:42 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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