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Author Topic:   How Creationism Explains Hominid Fossil Skulls (FINAL STATEMENTS ONLY)
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 137 (599849)
01-11-2011 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:13 AM


Re: Genesis species
So if they are correct there should be millions of fossils of extinct life forms found in the many different layers that it takes to cover the life forms that produced our oil, coal, and natural gas to the depth of 5 miles.
Well, guess what. We have already recovered millions of fossils.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:13 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 137 (599851)
01-11-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:13 AM


Re: Genesis species
What percentage of species fossilize?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:13 AM ICANT has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 48 of 137 (599853)
01-11-2011 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:13 AM


Re: Genesis species
Then again I may just be being preposterous.
Glad you realize that.
But you still haven't addressed the hominid fossils that we do have. Here is the timeline expressed differently:
What you are doing is denying the timeline based entirely on religious beliefs. As more and more evidence is found, you are forced to deny that too.
At what point will your denials and rationalizations stretch too far for even you to believe them?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:13 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:47 AM Coyote has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 49 of 137 (599855)
01-11-2011 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by ApostateAbe
01-10-2011 7:43 PM


Re: Genesis species
Hi Abe,
Your reference you gave talks about a process that everytime I mention it on EvC I get attacked.
ApostateAbe writes:
You can read all about it here.
The abrupt manner in which whole groups of species suddenly appear in certain formations, has been urged by several palaeontologists--for instance, by Agassiz, Pictet, and Sedgwick, as a fatal objection to the belief in the transmutation of species.
When I mention transmutation as the process of one creature becoming a totally different creature I am refered to the statement that was when man tried to turn lead into gold.
As far as I am concerned and Agassiz, Pictet, and Sedgwick it is what is called 'Macro-Evolution' today.
ApostateAbe writes:
If you object that not enough intermediate varieties have been found to confirm the prediction, then I suppose that would be relevant if you had an explanation with greater explanatory power that covers the existing evidence of seemingly intermediate forms.
So I can go down to the local used car lot and take a bunch of pictures of the automobiles in the lot and I have proved they all came from the same factory. Is that what you are saying?
Just because things are designed for a specific purpose and may resemble many others does not mean their origin was the same place, or from the same ancestor.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by ApostateAbe, posted 01-10-2011 7:43 PM ApostateAbe has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 50 of 137 (599856)
01-11-2011 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Coyote
01-11-2011 10:34 AM


Re: Genesis species
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes:
What you are doing is denying the timeline based entirely on religious beliefs. As more and more evidence is found, you are forced to deny that too.
Nice sketch.
The problem with all such sketches is that you only have life forms at the ends of the branches. All the other pictures of the various life forms are missing. I wonder why.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Coyote, posted 01-11-2011 10:34 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2011 11:05 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 53 by Coyote, posted 01-11-2011 11:05 AM ICANT has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 51 of 137 (599857)
01-11-2011 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:13 AM


Re: Genesis species
Hi ICANT,
Maybe it is preposterous.
Oh, absolutely it is preposterous. It is certainly a lie.
But he said they would be numerous in all stratas.
No he didn't. Another lie. You must really enjoy lying. I suppose that everyone has to have a hobby.
Not all layers contain fossils ICANT. Igneous layers, for instance, would not be expected to contain fossils. This is about as simple as geology gets and you still contrive to get it wrong. It would be tragic if it weren't so darn funny.
Oh and the plural of stratum is strata.
At the present we have a known 2 million species on earth.
I love the way you state that with such confidence, when otherwise, you don't believe a word that scientists tell you.
It's not as simple as that. Estimates vary enormously as to how many species have even been described. There is no master list and it is difficult to say how many species have been described twice or more.
Scientist say there could be 100 million species on earth today.
That sounds too high. Which scientist says that? Jerry Coyne for instance hazards a guess at about ten million.
Scientist say 99.9% of the life forms that have lived on earth are extinct.
Oh look! You got something right! Well, except you failed to pluralise the word "scientist", but it's a start I suppose.
So if they are correct there should be millions of fossils of extinct life forms found in the many different layers...
And that's what they do find. So I guess you'll accept that they are correct and embrace the Theory of Evolution, right?
Then again I may just be being preposterous.
Well why break the habit of a lifetime?
Mutate and Survive
Edited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.

On two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:13 AM ICANT has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 52 of 137 (599862)
01-11-2011 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:47 AM


Re: Genesis species
The problem with all such sketches is that you only have life forms at the ends of the branches.
Now you are just lying. Anyone that looks at the graphic can tell you are lying.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:47 AM ICANT has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 53 of 137 (599863)
01-11-2011 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:47 AM


Re: Genesis species
Nice sketch.
The problem with all such sketches is that you only have life forms at the ends of the branches. All the other pictures of the various life forms are missing. I wonder why.
They are not missing. We have the fossil skulls, which is the subject of this thread. I posted a photograph of many of them upthread.
Now kindly address the information in that chart and stop with trying to lead us down various rabbit holes.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:47 AM ICANT has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 54 of 137 (599865)
01-11-2011 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:13 AM


Re: Genesis species
But he said they would be numerous in all stratas.
Perhaps you forgot that Chapter 9 of "Origin of Species" is entitled "On the Imperfection of the Geologic Record". Darwin goes to lengths to explain why we do not see numerous transitional fossils and why the geologic record is missing strata throughout.
So if they are correct there should be millions of fossils of extinct life forms found in the many different layers that it takes to cover the life forms that produced our oil, coal, and natural gas to the depth of 5 miles.
You are making the assumption that everything that lived also turned into a fossil that is preserved to this day and is accessible to scientists. This is a very, very poor assumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:13 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 11:34 AM Taq has replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 55 of 137 (599866)
01-11-2011 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by ICANT
01-11-2011 10:41 AM


Re: Genesis species
So I can go down to the local used car lot and take a bunch of pictures of the automobiles in the lot and I have proved they all came from the same factory. Is that what you are saying?
You will have a point when cars start having babies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2011 10:41 AM ICANT has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 56 of 137 (599867)
01-11-2011 11:14 AM


ICAN'T,
You still have not shed light on how creationism explains the morphological trends in the hominid transitional fossils. As we go through time modern human features become more pronounced while more primitive ape features become less pronounced. These are the undeniable facts. How does creationism explain this?

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 01-11-2011 11:18 AM Taq has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 137 (599870)
01-11-2011 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Taq
01-11-2011 11:14 AM


OJT
On the Job Training. Their Creator is learning from past mistakes, just not learning very fast or well. Likely got the position under affirmative action.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Taq, posted 01-11-2011 11:14 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Taq, posted 01-11-2011 11:35 AM jar has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 58 of 137 (599873)
01-11-2011 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Taq
01-11-2011 11:10 AM


Re: Genesis species
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
You are making the assumption that everything that lived also turned into a fossil that is preserved to this day and is accessible to scientists. This is a very, very poor assumption.
No.
If only .01% were preserved there would be over 2 million and that is using the low end number of existing species to base the caculations on. If we used the high end numbers there would be over 50 million different species represented at the .01%.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Taq, posted 01-11-2011 11:10 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Taq, posted 01-11-2011 11:38 AM ICANT has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 59 of 137 (599874)
01-11-2011 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
01-11-2011 11:18 AM


Re: OJT
On the Job Training. Their Creator is learning from past mistakes, just not learning very fast or well. Likely got the position under affirmative action.
I can imagine the conversation now . . .
God's Boss: Hey Yahweh, what seems to be going wrong?
YHWH: The brain seems big enough but the little buggers can't talk very well.
GB: Did you check the FoxP2 gene?
YHWH: You know, I didn't. How dumb of me.
GB: Don't worry. Beginner's mistake.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 01-11-2011 11:18 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-11-2011 12:28 PM Taq has replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10073
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 60 of 137 (599875)
01-11-2011 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by ICANT
01-11-2011 11:34 AM


Re: Genesis species
If only .01% were preserved there would be over 2 million and that is using the low end number of existing species to base the caculations on. If we used the high end numbers there would be over 50 million different species represented at the .01%.
What if only 10% of those fossils escaped erosion and subduction? What if only 1% of those 10% are accessible to scientists in strata that are easily searched? What if scientists have only searched 0.0000001% of the strata that is accessible to them that carries these fossils?
Added by edit:
At one time the passenger pigeon population in North America numbered in the billions yet only a handful of passenger pigeon fossils are known. If a numerous and recent species only has a handful of fossil examples what does this say about more ancient and less numerous species.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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