Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 121 of 657 (599040)
01-04-2011 7:00 PM


Kadesh Barnea
Wasn't the majority of the 40 years of wandering spent in one place? Thirty-eight years spent in one spot, by supposedly millions of people, would leave huge middens all clustered around the area.

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 7:54 PM Asgara has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 657 (599046)
01-04-2011 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 6:59 PM


Re: Far Fetched Poop Holes
Buz writes:
Likely there were holes or small trenches for the purpose downwind which were covered with layers of dirt until full.
Over the millenia, erosion etc would have left no trace.
Get serious Buz.
How many people were involved in the trek?
How many cattle Buz?
How long did they stay at Kadesh?
Have you every read the Bible?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 6:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 123 of 657 (599049)
01-04-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 6:40 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
Buzsaw writes:
ringo writes:
We'd expect to find remnants of the utensils they used, the mills, the mortars, the pans, etc.
Why? These things went with them where ever they went. There's no reason most of that would have lasted 40 years or so. These things were hard to come by and needful.
You asked what evidence we'd expect to find and I told you. Broken crockery is a pretty common artifact in places where people have lived. It seems pretty unlikely that the children of Israel could have made such a journey without breaking anything.
But the thread is about presenting evidence, not making excuses for why you don't have any. The evidence you need is evidence of a large group of people. A chariot wheel here or there is NOT evidence of the Exodus.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 6:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:23 PM ringo has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 124 of 657 (599050)
01-04-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 6:59 PM


Re: Far Fetched Poop Holes
Over the millenia, erosion etc would have left no trace.
So what about the 2,000,000 sets of bones, since the wandering was do the the people not following the leaders had to wander for 40 until all that generation was deceased save for Joshua & Caleb?
Erosion will not destroy bones, in an arid climate in 4000 or so years.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 6:59 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 657 (599054)
01-04-2011 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Huntard
01-04-2011 1:13 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
huntard writes:
Evidence that the Jews were their. Their poop, their dead, their tools, their camp-sites. To name a few.
What sort of tools would you have expected them to leave behind or loose?
The only Native American camp sites that remain with evidence after less time were the ones where they lived for long periods of time. There have been camp sites all over the continent over the millenia. They had more primitive tools than the Israelites would have had. Thus broken ones etc show up at village sites. Not so with the Jews.
Their dead? How many Native American buried dead would you expect to find which would be over three thousand years old?
The people were very strong and healthy after years of hard labor in Egypt and having the perfect diet by Jehovah's providence. Relatively few would have died in the wilderness.
According to the Biblical record they still lived relatively long lives in those days. Moses lived 120 years. He was healthy when he died, walking to the mountain where he was to die, according to the record.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Huntard, posted 01-04-2011 1:13 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 7:44 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 128 by Asgara, posted 01-04-2011 7:57 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 152 by Huntard, posted 01-05-2011 5:41 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 370 by ramoss, posted 02-04-2011 3:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 480 by MiguelG, posted 04-12-2011 8:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 126 of 657 (599062)
01-04-2011 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 7:18 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
Buz writes:
The people were very strong and healthy after years of hard labor in Egypt and having the perfect diet by Jehovah's providence.
Perfect diet?
Have you ever read the Bible?
Where does it say they had the perfect diet.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 7:18 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:02 PM jar has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 657 (599067)
01-04-2011 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Asgara
01-04-2011 7:00 PM


Re: Kadesh Barnea
Asgara writes:
Wasn't the majority of the 40 years of wandering spent in one place? Thirty-eight years spent in one spot, by supposedly millions of people, would leave huge middens all clustered around the area.
Yes. Thank you Asgara. I forgot that important fact. This was at Kadesh Barnea.
There is some debate about the location of Kadesh, but most reliable sources like Josephus etc believe that Kadesh was Petra where there was good water and protection.
This location has been occupied by other cultures which have obliterated any evidence of of the Israelites over the millenia.
2000 BC: Abraham at En-mishpat: En-mishpat means "Spring of Judgement" that was renamed Kadesh by the Hebrews during the Exodus. Genesis 14:7 says: "Then they turned back and came to En-mishpat (that is, Kadesh), and conquered all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites, who lived in Hazazon-tamar."
1438 - 1400 BC: Kadesh-Barnea Hebrews spent 38 years at Kadesh Barnea with Moses and Joshua.
350 BC - 106 AD: Nabateans at Petra The Nabateans enlarged and enhanced the tomb city of the Hebrews. Everything we see today in Petra was the work of the Nabateans. Like Pharaoh in Egypt, the Nabateans removed all traces of the Hebrews in the multi coloured sandstone. Petra is a second use of the Hebrew Kadesh Barnea.
106 AD: Roman Petra: Arabia. The Romans annexed Petra and renamed it Arabia. Petra became the capital city of Roman Arabia.
100 AD - 400AD: Petra Josephus, Eusebius and Jerome all stated that Kadesh was at Petra.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Asgara, posted 01-04-2011 7:00 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by MiguelG, posted 04-12-2011 8:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 128 of 657 (599068)
01-04-2011 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 7:18 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
...Relatively few would have died in the wilderness.
Buz, they almost ALL died in the wilderness. Their health when they died is irrelevant, the fact is they were all DEAD when they died. Millions of dead leave evidence in the desert.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 7:18 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:08 PM Asgara has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 657 (599069)
01-04-2011 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by jar
01-04-2011 7:44 PM


Re: Perfect Diet.
Jar, any one food as the source of staple for a lengthy period sustaining a multitude in the wilderness had to be the perfect food. Go figure.
Jehovah creator/designer of man's body likely designed the manna so as to provide all of the vitamins, minerals, etc needful to keep the folks healthy. Moses, for example did fine on it dying at 120 years.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 7:44 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 8:08 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 657 (599070)
01-04-2011 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Asgara
01-04-2011 7:57 PM


Re: Traces Of Israelite graves.
Asgara writes:
Buz, they almost ALL died in the wilderness. Their health when they died is irrelevant, the fact is they were all DEAD when they died. Millions of dead leave evidence in the desert.
But most would have been buried at Kadish which became occupied by other cultures over the millenia. What trace of the Israelite dead would you expect to be identifiable today? Note the link on that matter.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Asgara, posted 01-04-2011 7:57 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by MiguelG, posted 04-12-2011 8:35 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 131 of 657 (599071)
01-04-2011 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 8:02 PM


Re: Perfect Diet.
Buz writes:
Jar, any one food as the source of staple for a lengthy period sustaining a multitude in the wilderness had to be the perfect food. Go figure.
Jehovah creator/designer of man's body likely designed the manna so as to provide all of the vitamins, minerals, etc needful to keep the folks healthy. Moses, for example did fine on it dying at 120 years.
Again Buz, have you ever read the Bible?
They did not have one food source. They hated manna. They were thrilled when they finally got other food to eat. Claims of likely this and likely that are pointless fantasy on your part.
This is a Science forum Buz. If you are going to make an assertion you need to be able to back it up with more than Buz's fantasies.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:02 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:27 PM jar has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 657 (599074)
01-04-2011 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by ringo
01-04-2011 7:11 PM


Re: Corroborating Crossing Evidence.
ringo writes:
A chariot wheel here or there is NOT evidence of the Exodus.
There you go, ringo. Where were you when the Exodus threads were debated? Corroborating evidence was cited on both sides of the crossing, including the large beach in a topography where escape would be impossible without the crossing of the sea, the unusual split rock, the blacked top mountain, the Biblical identification of Midian in Arabia as location of Mt Sinai, the bull inscriptions and large plain below the mountain suitable for the people etc.
The wheels were not here and there, perse. They were at the most shallow area of the Sea and at a beach large enough for a large multitude at the precise area where the other corroborating evidence exists.
It's all compatible with the Biblical record. The Biblial record and some other study research is what led Wyatt, the pioneer to that location.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 01-04-2011 7:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by ringo, posted 01-04-2011 8:31 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 136 by DrJones*, posted 01-04-2011 8:38 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 148 by PaulK, posted 01-05-2011 1:46 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 657 (599075)
01-04-2011 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by jar
01-04-2011 8:08 PM


Re: Perfect Diet.
jar writes:
They did not have one food source.
I didn't say it was. I said it was their staple for a lengthy period of time.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 8:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 8:34 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 134 of 657 (599076)
01-04-2011 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 8:23 PM


Re: Corroborating Crossing Evidence.
Buzsaw writes:
The wheels were not here and there, perse.
The wheels are irrelevant. If they are real, they only prove that chariots were there. They indicate NOTHING about the Israelite people.
There were chariots all over Egypt for centuries on end. Finding a chariot wheel in Egypt is like finding a hubcap beside the highway. What you need to show is evidence that the PEOPLE were there.
Edited by ringo, : Musspelled "centuries".

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:23 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 10:19 PM ringo has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 135 of 657 (599077)
01-04-2011 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 8:27 PM


Re: Perfect Diet.
quote:
Buz, have you ever even read the Bible?
quote:
11 The LORD said to Moses, 12 I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’
13 That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp.

Buz, did you say ...
Buz writes:
Jar, any one food as the source of staple for a lengthy period sustaining a multitude in the wilderness had to be the perfect food. Go figure.
Jehovah creator/designer of man's body likely designed the manna so as to provide all of the vitamins, minerals, etc needful to keep the folks healthy. Moses, for example did fine on it dying at 120 years.
Again, the issue is evidence.
Do you have ANY evidence that might show that the Biblical Exodus ever happened?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:27 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024